How it was forged.

[WinterHold]

Thank you for your patience,

That video about the sun revolving the Earth…I'm too shocked. That's stupider than people who think Barrack Obama was not born in the United States. Whenever there is a transit of the planet Venus or Mercury we can know that they do not orbit the Earth. This is a clear case of someone denying reality because of what they believe.

On the subject of Saudi, I think you'll be inclined to agree when I say Mecca should be more like the Vatican. If the Vatican was part of Italy then the Italian government could exert their influence on it, which is exactly why the Vatican is a separate entity. Mecca should be a place for all people yet I hear stories of bookshops in Mecca distributing the Saudi narrative, e.g. anti-Sufi and anti-Shia literature. You're right, Saudi wants to turn Mecca into some kind of theme park (surrounded by lots of their propaganda).

You are welcome.

About the video, it's how the Saudi religious institute acts. Wahhabism was built on ignorant nonsense, targeting science to prevent the native from learning, and use that education to overthrow the nomadic tribal family that rules the oil. Using religion as an opium, they keep them gassed & suppressed.

About Mecca,as a place of worship it should be for everybody. just to enrich your info more, It's not just about "bookshops"; Mecca is literally occupied by the Sauds, you can actually see the Saud's logo on the clock tower they built there (at the center of the clock) .

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Aside from that, the holly mosque is filled with Wahhabi officials who follow the Saudi religious institute, ordering people around according the Wahhabi rules.

Also, it's prohibited for a non-Saudi to become the "Imam" of the mosque -i.e lead the people in the prayer-. And, each Friday prayer starts with "chanting & blessing for the Saudi king".

The clock tower they built contains hotels and malls, with sky-high prices; it's not the only hotel though; the cheapest room in Mecca now worth 400 S.R for the night, if you want to practice Haj, you must first register with a Haj campaign ( which to run; needs to pay a portion to the Saudi government ), if you come without registering with on of those, you're out & prevented from Haj or visiting the country for 5 years -.i.e banished for 5 years-. That alone without discussing the visa payment.

I think the Saudi oil minister, Sheikh Zaki Yamani, put it best when he said: “the Stone Age did not end for lack of stone, and the Oil Age will end long before the world runs out of oil”. So they realize they need other sources of income. I was shocked when I found out how much Saudi spends on Dawah. It goes into the billions. Think of all the starving people that could have been fed.

Lust for thrones can make people spend even more. The Wahhabi Dawa is the only thing keeping them in the throne.

Nobody was meant to be immortal, sure, but given recent advances in technology, it's looking increasingly likely that some people alive today will become immortal. People are talking about nanotechnology in the bloodstream, entire organs grown in a laboratory and very soon there will be a cure of cancer too. Did you know that there are certain types of organisms that are immortal? That means some humans may never be judged. By the time the universe comes to an end, I'm sure humanity will have found ways to avoid even that.

My bet was always on how fast humans demolish what they built. If the modern culture was a constant, an everlasting state, maybe that would be a possibility. But when humanity is armed with atomic weapons, with a civilization posted on a weak economical system that already started to collapse in 2008, I start to have big doubts.

If you watch the political move of the world (combined with the military movements), you'll reach a conclusion that a spark might make fire start in regions. A respected point of view that many said & asserted with evidence. The Cuban missile crisis was just an example of a spark that missed the spot. 2008 was another spark that missed.

Here : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doomsday_Clock

And this is not crazy land. The people behind this clock are (the members of the Science and Security Board of the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists,[1] who are in turn advised by the Governing Board and the Board of Sponsors, including 18 Nobel Laureates).

With the bulletin being "founded by former Manhattan Project physicists after the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki as the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists of Chicago".

We're still in the nuclear age.
As technology to immortality grows, technology to oblivion also grows.

In fact, Wikipedia has an entire article on biological immortality. There are people out there, scientists, who seek to take the genes that make these organisms immortal and put it into humans. I believe there will come a day when people are periodically given new organs to keep them alive. There will be people alive today who may never die.

Protecting one's genes against senescence, doesn't protect their skin or brain from being penetrated by a bullet, or a simple atomic blast or nuclear winter.

Unless it's about betting on the odds, that a climate change won't cause total annihilation before a war even breaks out.

What I take away from all the pain and suffering in the world is that Allah loves us so much that Allah allowed us to harm ourselves. It's like you say with the crane at the Grand Mosque. Allah is allowing humans to harm themselves (even though humans were created weak).

God is not a human. In modern Christianity for example, God is viewed as a loving Father, loving all humans equally, but I still think this is a false concept, that left an imprint on the view towards God in the world.

God is not human. He's a "creator". As I discussed slavery with you, all of us are actually slaves of God.

We live by his rules, either we liked or not. For example, food. We must eat, drink, if somebody refuses, they die out. We must use the sun & the moon or else we won't be able to grow crops & count our blessings from family members to the numbers of stars. Can you get angry on the sun for being there ? or for flowers only growing based on seasons ? as we view them as "laws of the universe; so as it is with God. He's not a human Father.

Yet, slavery to God is nothing that even compares to slavery to humans. With God.

We have free will and, by your own admission, Allah does not have the willingness to intervene in many situations so how can Allah be all good at the same time? How different do you think a universe with no god would be from our current universe? If Allah chooses not to intervene in all these circumstances then there might as well not be a god.

Following the above concept, along with the belief that this life is just a test, not intervening doesn't mean he is evil or bad. It simply means you have a road that you need to cross a big part of it under pressure. Pressure that might sometimes be fatal.

Allah is claimed to be 'all good' yet Allah does not have the willingness to stop excessive suffering (e.g. holocaust; Adolf Hitler was known to have good relations with Hasan al-Banna so maybe that can give us clues to Allah's absence in the situation). How can it be claimed that Allah is all good when suffering which is clearly unnecessary continues? There are ways of testing people without causing them any physical harm.

If harm didn't exist, it would just be a walk in the park after all. I would've became an atheist by now. His way, succeeded flawlessly, since a huge number of people deny him, or don't believe in him unless another God is included. To know how loyal your followers are, put them under pressure that can actually kills them. Those who go all the way, deserve it all.

Humans can't repay the dead (and a flag covered coffin is no repay); yet he; God, has a paradise. That's the price of this test.
And yet, many are tested without any of the sufferings of war.

And who said God is on the side of the Muslim Brotherhood ?

Like you say, there are lots of Earthly delights that tempt us. Naturally these would lead us away from Allah. So why couldn't Allah give humanity a much less painful test, say testing our knowledge of scripture or judge how well we have looked after our corner of the Earth? There's a thought: Why is the criteria for entering Jannah not based on our good deeds and instead based on whether or not we believe? There's every change that even if we pick the right religion that we picked the wrong branch of that religion.

A perfect ground for a fight between humans & Satan. A war was never meant to be easy.

About believing in God, I can only answer for those who received a message of some sort (in a correct way), telling them there's only one God to deserve worship, yet refused it. If somebody is ignorant, then their judgement is something I don't know :

( Sura 23 Verse 117 )   And whoever invokes besides God another deity for which he has no proof - then his account is only with his Lord. Indeed, the disbelievers will not succeed.

It is humans who are putting an end to suffering, not Allah. We could have had the schematics for a fusion power planet ages ago and put an end to global warming, had Allah given it to us. But Allah chooses to do nothing even as the Ummah themselves die painful deaths. Where was Allah when Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab went around Arabia pillaging important shrines and other historical places?

Aren't we the inheritors of this planet after all ?

( Sura 2 Verse 30 )   And [mention, O Muhammad], when your Lord said to the angels, "Indeed, I will make upon the earth a successive authority." They said, "Will You place upon it one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood, while we declare Your praise and sanctify You?" Allah said, "Indeed, I know that which you do not know."

God gave us all materials possible -hence;minds- to build up this land, yet we wasted it on wars and blind nationalism, invasions & enslavement of each other -even for the most stupid reasons : skin color-, still doing it until today in Iraq, Syria, America is the biggest example of a country wasting billions on a war machine enough to wipe out this planet & its climate twice, let's not add Russia & China so we don't cry in sorrow.

Nobody phrases it better than God himself :

( Sura 30 Verse 41 )   Corruption has appeared throughout the land and sea by [reason of] what the hands of people have earned so He may let them taste part of [the consequence of] what they have done that perhaps they will return [to righteousness].

Global warming took place because factories cannot stop burning to keep only a portion of this earth fat & obese, while millions are dying in hunger in Aftica. One person eating the share of 5 in one meal, drinking a super size soda from mac that is enough to keep a whole family alive in Afghanistan.

But yet, nothing is worse than somebody who forgets the deeds of his/her on hands, to blame it on somebody else, as God phrases it :

(Sura 18 Verse 57 )   And who is more unjust than one who is reminded of the verses of his Lord but turns away from them and forgets what his hands have put forth? Indeed, We have placed over their hearts coverings, lest they understand it, and in their ears deafness. And if you invite them to guidance - they will never be guided, then - ever.

Humans committed a lot of sins, MNMP. It's not God to blame. It is us.
Who supported Ibn Abd Al Wahhab's minions ? wasn't it Britian & pretty much all of the west, to destroy the ottoman empire from the inside ?

yet, his minions are still in power, backed and supported by super powers such as America, to the level of sending American soldiers to die in the desert of Arabia, to save the sauds and their oil from Saddam
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_War

The judgement is in the afterlife, MNMP.

Moving on to slavery:

So there's nothing stopping me, if I wanted to be seen as a good believer, from stockpiling slaves and then freeing them as I deem necessary (e.g. freeing one whenever I break a promise)? You said people can use slaves in order to atone for their sins, so it would make sense for people to keep some slaves for themselves. But you also said slavery is a sin, though on what basis can you claim that? You also told me the Quran has no specific verses claims telling people not to keep slaves.

? I didn't quite get your meaning, but when you pay to free, it is not paying to "own" that's for sure : freeing means to simply pay the slave's price to set him free, not to own him ! doing what you said, is playing games with God; and that means hell; simply.
When did I say "use slaves" ? I said "free slaves"; literally, you can check my comment back.

Pay his price-burn his slavery document-he's free. Simple. If you pay to keep, then you didn't free nobody, you didn't quite "atone" for your sin; and probably punishment is already on it's way to you playing games with God.

The verse didn't point to slaves owned by YOU; rather, any slaves.

Though; moving now to the expiation and how it relates forbidding slavery.

If you stole food from a merchant, you cannot expiate by stealing again from him; you must return his food or money.
In other words, you can only expiate through something good.
If freeing slaves is something good -since it's an expiation-, then how does taking them in the first place is not a sin ?

It's a sin to treat slaves badly, sure, but the Quran does not condemn the act of keeping people enslaved if they are treated well.  If you go to the Islamic Republic of Mauritania you will find that something like every one in twenty people is a slave, so you will no doubt find people using the scriptures to justify the act of keeping slaves. They can say so, of course, because, as you said, Quran isn't explicit about not keeping slaves. Have a look at the global slavery index:
http://www.globalslaveryindex.org/findings/

I told you, I'm not a Sunni, those people don't represent me or my faith. They follow their Hadiths that allows them to do this freely.

My main topic is about forgery that happened to Islam. Instead of doing the above (observing the verses and know that the negation of an expiation is indeed a bad thing), they instead followed a hadith blindly.

People will use anything to justify anything. Believe me. People can justify "murder" via the typical excuse "she cheated on me !!", or "daddy didn't give me enough attention as a child".. Humans are that weird.

Interesting video:



When you say about the banks and modern society I think we have limited free will in that regard. We can still make some conscious decisions. I don't have to put my money with the big banks if I don't want to. I could put my money in a building society instead, or maybe the Islamic Bank in my country, if they'll have me.

3 minutes into that video and I was already disgusted.

About the money, where you put it is not the problem. you see, why I called it slavery, is that paper currency lose its worth through time. The 100 $ in the 60s is not the 100$ of today. Reaching a building society to invest in is too risky & needs lots of contacts, the money is also paper/digital, also prone to every inch devaluing. And gold ? they won't allow you to take it with you anywhere.

Likewise, I don't have to go into the 'mega fast food chains'. For me at least, it's so much nicer to cook burgers at home. Even basic cookery skills can go a long way.

I still have some reliance on big business, but there are steps I can take to minimize cooperate influence on my life. I could walk more or go to the market in my town, for example; and buy local produce and help farmers get a better deal. And I can eat seasonably too. If we care about our planet we can all make changes to our lives.

Let's no go into New World Order. That sounds like crazy land. All I'm saying is we need to be more conscious of the world around us.

About fast food, yes a homemade diet is always the way to go.
My reliance on big businesses is a certainty since I'm just starting my life. Above all, the Middle East has became dependent on big corporations in a scary way, some areas are heavier than the others; I happened to be on of the heaviest. You're lucky.

If we care, caring would indeed touch our lives too.

The NWO is not a tinfoil theory. It's the new world of corporation control & elite businessmen domination. Ones like the gun contractors who stir wars to sell more arms, who manipulate number causing ups & downs in the stock market. It's not that much of crazy land to me at least. But the people who took that word to include aliens & reptile obama are the reason behind the bad name..