MNMP
I follow no Jafr, Hadith books or any of that. The Quran is my only source.
The moon symbol is to my info, was used by Ancient Arabs for ages. Yet what gave it the widespread -as you said- : was the Ottomans. I don't know their motives.
Allah above the coat of arms means nothing. For their symbol to be there is enough disastrous. This is a holy land that tribal & nationalistic symbols should stay out of it.
The Shahada on their flag is there to give the flag & the country an Islamic flavor..cover the tribal taste with a religious taste.
People using "science in the Quran" are not precisly Wahhabies; yet the Sunni faith to me has a rotten base in the first place, the saudies only made it worse.
I think it's only a call to make the mosque "for Muslims & Muslims only". After all, it's a holy ground. This verse applies to the acts of the Sauds by the way; my problem for example with their coat of arms hanged is nothing but carrying out this verse : keep idols out of Mecca.
About the Sikh Guru, the verse spoke about the mosque itself (not the city). I guess it's legit if somebody of different faith wanted also to pass by.
Nothing in the verse says otherwise.
Yes. It mentions the mosque only.
"Al Masged Al Haram" is well known to be the "holy mosque".
About the "Qebla" or "direction of prayer", the Quran clearly says it should be towards the holy mosque. Yet Again, in ancient times, people didn't have the accurate means that we have today to calibrate the directions.
(Sura 2 Verse 149 ) So from wherever you go out turn your face toward al- Masjid al-Haram, and indeed, it is the truth from your Lord. And Allah is not unaware of what you do.
That book looks interesting to read.
A pagan doesn't need to be a stone worshiper; actually the Quran spoke about different types of pagans, the idol you worship can be "your own desire".
This verse for example :
(Sura 25 Verse 43 ) Have you seen the one who takes as his god his own desire? Then would you be responsible for him?
I think athiests fall under that category.
About Zam-Zam, it's not even mentioned in the Quran, for me personally, the only worth for the spring is its archaeological value. Many Muslims took it as "holy waters".
The Sauds would of course find it an awesome chance to make money out of it; even if it's fake zam-zam.
That's the role of the Super Power after all. It's hard to become a SP without bullying small countries. The U.S.A started that even before WW2, even Hitler was bullied; Japan too, but that's the price you pay to become supreme on this earth; yet : too much bullying makes up too many enemies, i.e the Jihadi headache the U.S is living today. Let alone the many force nobody knows anything about yet -like Putin & China- who stretch their arms to hurt the States every now & then. Take the recent Russian intervention in Syria for example.
I agree to your point, double standards in blaming others while forgetting your own sins.
I usually speak with a broad look that includes the ancient times too; and places with no tech. To me, a perfect book would be a book that works in all environments after all.
Take technology or resources off; then boom: again you need God desperately to help you growing your crops.. Take huge crops; if you wanted to grow them artificially, you'll need whole power plants to keep the lights on..Not everybody can afford that; even today.
All humans are materialistic. Actually, heaven or paradise is a place where people get infinite materialistic things as part of the blessings they are in. Being materialistic is being human.
Though, the key is to let go of some materialistic things because they hurt others, remove doing things with excess. Excess that cause earth to die, and a whole continent to go in poverty.
I'm not. Actually I fall in the hot zone between Sunni & Shia fire; since my beliefs attack both and accuse them of forging Islam. Ironically, all my beliefs are purely Quranic. In Saudi Arabia, I could go to jail & for a really long time or worse : get my head cut. Iran is the same for me too.
There must be anti-monopoly rules, but the U.S clearly don't have them; corruption is a bad thing, worse is when politicians get bought by big businessmen. Take McDonald that never pays taxes; allowing it to expand insanely on behalf of other businesses. Again : double standards..
Not a democracy I would dream about.
The political situation is the big move, it's Iran when the Sauds have a problem with Iran, it's "Zionism or ze big devil" when it's the sauds fault; again Saudi Arabia & Israel are big buddies under the table. I advice you to read the history of the Sauds. God gets angry & vengeful against all sinners; not just Jews. Yet; he also forgives. His anger & forgiveness are nothing like human anger and forgiveness, too.
About the topic of Satan not bowing. That's free will. I will discuss this topic exactly in a different topic. I actually need to arrange my ideas and theory about it..
I follow no Jafr, Hadith books or any of that. The Quran is my only source.
The moon symbol is to my info, was used by Ancient Arabs for ages. Yet what gave it the widespread -as you said- : was the Ottomans. I don't know their motives.
Allah above the coat of arms means nothing. For their symbol to be there is enough disastrous. This is a holy land that tribal & nationalistic symbols should stay out of it.
The Shahada on their flag is there to give the flag & the country an Islamic flavor..cover the tribal taste with a religious taste.
People using "science in the Quran" are not precisly Wahhabies; yet the Sunni faith to me has a rotten base in the first place, the saudies only made it worse.
Quote:It didn't even used to be the case that Kathir couldn't enter Mecca, apparently. The Sikh Guru, Nanak, went to Mecca during his travels. People use this fact against Sikhs but there is nothing to suggest he completed any pilgrimage. He merely passed through Mecca. I know Quran 9:28 says idolaters are not approach the Sacred Mosque, but I see a number of problems with the Iyah.
I think it's only a call to make the mosque "for Muslims & Muslims only". After all, it's a holy ground. This verse applies to the acts of the Sauds by the way; my problem for example with their coat of arms hanged is nothing but carrying out this verse : keep idols out of Mecca.
About the Sikh Guru, the verse spoke about the mosque itself (not the city). I guess it's legit if somebody of different faith wanted also to pass by.
Nothing in the verse says otherwise.
Quote:First, like many Iyah in the Quran, it doesn't mention Mecca by name. People simply assume that it's referring to Mecca. I remember there is a man named Dan Gibson who visited many early Mosque sites and found the Qublia was not always facing Mecca.
This is his website I believe:
http://www.searchformecca.com/
(There are various resources available for download, and a book to buy, for those interested)
Yes. It mentions the mosque only.
"Al Masged Al Haram" is well known to be the "holy mosque".
About the "Qebla" or "direction of prayer", the Quran clearly says it should be towards the holy mosque. Yet Again, in ancient times, people didn't have the accurate means that we have today to calibrate the directions.
(Sura 2 Verse 149 ) So from wherever you go out turn your face toward al- Masjid al-Haram, and indeed, it is the truth from your Lord. And Allah is not unaware of what you do.
That book looks interesting to read.
Quote:Second, the verse is more interesting for what it doesn't say rather what it does. Atheist, by definition, can't be Pagans so should they be allowed near the Sacred Mosque? Saudi loves money so they could turn Mecca into a world famous tourist attraction, like the Vatican is, if they haven't already. It would certainly help with the Dawah. I wouldn't be surprised if the Saudis were artificially keeping the Zamzam spring flowing.
A pagan doesn't need to be a stone worshiper; actually the Quran spoke about different types of pagans, the idol you worship can be "your own desire".
This verse for example :
(Sura 25 Verse 43 ) Have you seen the one who takes as his god his own desire? Then would you be responsible for him?
I think athiests fall under that category.
About Zam-Zam, it's not even mentioned in the Quran, for me personally, the only worth for the spring is its archaeological value. Many Muslims took it as "holy waters".
The Sauds would of course find it an awesome chance to make money out of it; even if it's fake zam-zam.
Quote:I also knew about the Doomsday Clock. Fortunately there was that Fawta (not exactly a Fawta, but whatever) against climate change, so there is some hope. The United States is full of hypocrites who would like to deny that the United States likes to bully everyone.
Just yesterday we learnt of the Afghan hospital bombing yet at the same time the United States is accusing the Russian Federation of killing civilians in Syria. And we also had Texas senator Ted Cruz making death threats against the Ayatollah recently too. And then they wonder why people chant “death to America”. There are so many reasons to hate the United States – the list is seemingly endless. But at least we can NASA for memory foam mattresses, pocket calculators and amazing photographs of all of the planets, including Pluto.
That's the role of the Super Power after all. It's hard to become a SP without bullying small countries. The U.S.A started that even before WW2, even Hitler was bullied; Japan too, but that's the price you pay to become supreme on this earth; yet : too much bullying makes up too many enemies, i.e the Jihadi headache the U.S is living today. Let alone the many force nobody knows anything about yet -like Putin & China- who stretch their arms to hurt the States every now & then. Take the recent Russian intervention in Syria for example.
I agree to your point, double standards in blaming others while forgetting your own sins.
Quote:While we're on the subject of NASA, I must correct you on something. We don't need the sun or moon for plants to grow. Plants, including edible ones, have been grown on the International Space Station without the use of sunlight and then eaten. They use artificial lights that replicate the effect of sunlight.
I sort of understand what you're referring to when you talk about your religious slavery. But it's paradoxical. You can never be completely free from Earthly desires. I see all these (Sunni) Fascist Da'is preaching about how we shouldn't be materialistic yet they sponge off of those that donate to them and wear designer clothes and go on so many nice holidays whilst those they take advantage of suffer. I know that DawahMan, for example, has been reported for fraud by TheRatioanlizer.
I usually speak with a broad look that includes the ancient times too; and places with no tech. To me, a perfect book would be a book that works in all environments after all.
Take technology or resources off; then boom: again you need God desperately to help you growing your crops.. Take huge crops; if you wanted to grow them artificially, you'll need whole power plants to keep the lights on..Not everybody can afford that; even today.
All humans are materialistic. Actually, heaven or paradise is a place where people get infinite materialistic things as part of the blessings they are in. Being materialistic is being human.
Though, the key is to let go of some materialistic things because they hurt others, remove doing things with excess. Excess that cause earth to die, and a whole continent to go in poverty.
Quote:I don't remember you telling me personally that you're not a Sunni, but now I know. Regardless, I think we have talked about slavery enough. I'm not suggesting you like to wear peculiar hats but where I live is nothing like the United States, where big business does dominate to an unhealthy degree. If people care about Capitalism then they would put measures in place to restrain big business from becoming too powerful. Funny how Americans lecture the rest of the world about Democracy when there is none where they live.
I'm not. Actually I fall in the hot zone between Sunni & Shia fire; since my beliefs attack both and accuse them of forging Islam. Ironically, all my beliefs are purely Quranic. In Saudi Arabia, I could go to jail & for a really long time or worse : get my head cut. Iran is the same for me too.
There must be anti-monopoly rules, but the U.S clearly don't have them; corruption is a bad thing, worse is when politicians get bought by big businessmen. Take McDonald that never pays taxes; allowing it to expand insanely on behalf of other businesses. Again : double standards..
Not a democracy I would dream about.
Quote:I was not suggesting Allah has human attributes, even though Allah is shown to get angry and is vengeful against the Jews. I'm surprised Iran and Africans have been blamed for the recent troubles in Mecca and it's not been the fault of Zionists for once. However, what I am saying is that it was non-nonsensical for Iblis to refuse to bow before Adam. Allah created Iblis knowing this would happen. I could create a better universe than Allah if I was given the same powers Allah is said to have.
The political situation is the big move, it's Iran when the Sauds have a problem with Iran, it's "Zionism or ze big devil" when it's the sauds fault; again Saudi Arabia & Israel are big buddies under the table. I advice you to read the history of the Sauds. God gets angry & vengeful against all sinners; not just Jews. Yet; he also forgives. His anger & forgiveness are nothing like human anger and forgiveness, too.
About the topic of Satan not bowing. That's free will. I will discuss this topic exactly in a different topic. I actually need to arrange my ideas and theory about it..
