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How it was forged.
#58
RE: How it was forged.
I can accept not entering inside the Haram but the boundaries of Mecca the city are a human construct. Also, because Mecca is owned by Saudi, it means the al-Saud family get to define who is a believer and who isn't because they restrict those who can visit Mecca.

The Satanic Verses are a well known story. The story is mentioned in various places, notably in al-Tabarī. It is not a story created by Kathirs against Muhammad as it is reported by believers themselves. It inspired the infamous book of the same name, first published in 1988, by the Indian author Salman Rushdie. A Fatwa was issued allowing people to kill Salman Rushdie because many people didn't like his book (even though the book is fiction and only loosely based on the account in the Hadith etc.). Fortunately, he is still alive today.

People have debated its authenticity many times. Many believers at least acknowledge the story. Here is a summary of the story:
The story is found in Buhkari though this version doesn't mention the Shaytan. The other two versions of the story (e.g. from al-Tabarī and Ibn Hisham) go like this. Either:
1. The Shaytan made Muhammad speak the names of the three Pagan goddesses (from al-Tabarī)
or 2. Muhammad was reciting Quran and Muhammad, in this instance, could not tell the difference between Jibrill and the Shaytan. The Shaytan pretended to be Jibrill and Muhammad fell for it and after the real Jibrill informed of what had happened Muhammad became very depressed.
People have claimed story is an example of a test from Allah to Muhammad.

In both versions, the Pagans heard Muhammad recite the names of the Pagan goddesses and began to join the believers in prayer. The believers, meanwhile, did not understand what was going on and where confused. Later, the verses were (supposedly) changed to the Quran 53:19-23 we see today. Other people have claimed Muhammad was trying to make the Pagans happy by acknowledging their deities and later retracted the verses and use the story as proof the Quran has been changed.

Yasir Qadhi is a nice man, I'll let him explain (as he can explain the story better than I can):
The Incident of the Satanic Verses - Yasir Qadhi | November 2011
https://youtu.be/X8CDvhM3arg

But let's put that website aside for one moment. The Quran (2:127) says the Kaaba was originally built by Abraham. If evidence was found that Mecca is as old the Quran says, don't you think the Saudis would yell about it? It would certainly be checkmate for the Bible if one could demonstrate people have been going on pilgrimage to Mecca for that long. Yet we can't even be sure Abraham existed. True, there are lots of people who we can't say for certain existed, but this is Abraham. Abraham is important.

If Abraham didn't exist, then Muhammad can't claim him as an ancestor. This would cause all sorts of problems, obviously. The story of Abraham makes me sad because he was going to kill his own son because he thought god told him to. Disgusting.

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Messages In This Thread
How it was forged. - by WinterHold - September 24, 2015 at 8:17 am
RE: How it was forged. - by Iroscato - September 24, 2015 at 8:22 am
RE: How it was forged. - by ignoramus - September 24, 2015 at 8:33 am
RE: How it was forged. - by Iroscato - September 24, 2015 at 8:36 am
RE: How it was forged. - by brewer - September 24, 2015 at 8:41 am
RE: How it was forged. - by ignoramus - September 24, 2015 at 8:42 am
RE: How it was forged. - by downbeatplumb - September 24, 2015 at 12:35 pm
RE: How it was forged. - by Cato - September 24, 2015 at 8:41 pm
RE: How it was forged. - by ReptilianPeon - September 24, 2015 at 8:45 am
RE: How it was forged. - by abaris - September 24, 2015 at 12:50 pm
RE: How it was forged. - by ReptilianPeon - September 24, 2015 at 5:56 pm
RE: How it was forged. - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - September 25, 2015 at 3:43 am
RE: How it was forged. - by abaris - September 25, 2015 at 4:27 am
RE: How it was forged. - by Minimalist - September 24, 2015 at 12:52 pm
RE: How it was forged. - by JesusHChrist - September 24, 2015 at 1:02 pm
RE: How it was forged. - by Cyberman - September 24, 2015 at 8:58 pm
RE: How it was forged. - by Minimalist - September 24, 2015 at 1:04 pm
RE: How it was forged. - by downbeatplumb - September 24, 2015 at 1:37 pm
RE: How it was forged. - by Wyrd of Gawd - September 24, 2015 at 8:47 pm
RE: How it was forged. - by Wyrd of Gawd - September 24, 2015 at 8:51 pm
RE: How it was forged. - by WinterHold - September 25, 2015 at 3:38 am
RE: How it was forged. - by Cato - September 25, 2015 at 6:14 am
RE: How it was forged. - by robvalue - September 25, 2015 at 6:50 am
RE: How it was forged. - by WinterHold - September 25, 2015 at 7:12 am
RE: How it was forged. - by Cato - September 26, 2015 at 8:20 am
RE: How it was forged. - by ReptilianPeon - September 25, 2015 at 1:33 pm
RE: How it was forged. - by LastPoet - September 25, 2015 at 1:47 pm
RE: How it was forged. - by Minimalist - September 25, 2015 at 2:19 pm
RE: How it was forged. - by robvalue - September 25, 2015 at 2:24 pm
RE: How it was forged. - by WinterHold - September 26, 2015 at 12:56 am
RE: How it was forged. - by ReptilianPeon - September 26, 2015 at 5:35 am
RE: How it was forged. - by Wyrd of Gawd - September 26, 2015 at 4:41 pm
RE: How it was forged. - by WinterHold - September 26, 2015 at 7:47 pm
RE: How it was forged. - by ReptilianPeon - September 28, 2015 at 4:46 am
RE: How it was forged. - by WinterHold - September 29, 2015 at 7:22 pm
RE: How it was forged. - by Wyrd of Gawd - September 29, 2015 at 7:44 pm
RE: How it was forged. - by WinterHold - September 30, 2015 at 4:35 am
RE: How it was forged. - by ReptilianPeon - September 30, 2015 at 10:44 am
RE: How it was forged. - by WinterHold - October 2, 2015 at 2:06 pm
RE: How it was forged. - by MysticKnight - October 3, 2015 at 1:17 am
RE: How it was forged. - by WinterHold - October 3, 2015 at 1:52 am
RE: How it was forged. - by MysticKnight - October 3, 2015 at 11:29 am
RE: How it was forged. - by Wyrd of Gawd - October 3, 2015 at 3:27 pm
RE: How it was forged. - by MysticKnight - October 3, 2015 at 6:05 pm
RE: How it was forged. - by ReptilianPeon - October 3, 2015 at 3:43 pm
RE: How it was forged. - by ReptilianPeon - October 3, 2015 at 4:59 pm
RE: How it was forged. - by WinterHold - October 4, 2015 at 3:19 pm
RE: How it was forged. - by ReptilianPeon - October 4, 2015 at 3:33 pm
RE: How it was forged. - by MysticKnight - October 4, 2015 at 9:16 pm
RE: How it was forged. - by The Valkyrie - October 4, 2015 at 9:17 pm
RE: How it was forged. - by ReptilianPeon - October 5, 2015 at 7:03 am
RE: How it was forged. - by WinterHold - October 5, 2015 at 3:30 pm
RE: How it was forged. - by Wyrd of Gawd - October 5, 2015 at 9:23 pm
RE: How it was forged. - by ReptilianPeon - October 6, 2015 at 5:02 am
RE: How it was forged. - by WinterHold - October 6, 2015 at 7:41 am
RE: How it was forged. - by WinterHold - October 6, 2015 at 8:11 am
RE: How it was forged. - by ReptilianPeon - October 6, 2015 at 1:43 pm
RE: How it was forged. - by Wyrd of Gawd - October 7, 2015 at 2:25 am
RE: How it was forged. - by MysticKnight - October 6, 2015 at 1:26 pm
RE: How it was forged. - by WinterHold - October 7, 2015 at 8:41 am
RE: How it was forged. - by Wyrd of Gawd - October 7, 2015 at 10:54 pm
RE: How it was forged. - by Edwardo Piet - October 7, 2015 at 7:43 pm
RE: How it was forged. - by robvalue - October 8, 2015 at 4:18 am
RE: How it was forged. - by WinterHold - October 8, 2015 at 9:20 am
RE: How it was forged. - by Wyrd of Gawd - October 10, 2015 at 10:38 am
RE: How it was forged. - by WinterHold - October 8, 2015 at 9:30 am
RE: How it was forged. - by Edwardo Piet - October 8, 2015 at 9:44 am
RE: How it was forged. - by WinterHold - October 10, 2015 at 8:44 am
RE: How it was forged. - by WinterHold - October 10, 2015 at 12:01 pm
RE: How it was forged. - by ReptilianPeon - October 10, 2015 at 3:20 pm
RE: How it was forged. - by WinterHold - October 11, 2015 at 10:00 pm
RE: How it was forged. - by ReptilianPeon - October 13, 2015 at 5:25 am
RE: How it was forged. - by WinterHold - October 14, 2015 at 10:47 am
RE: How it was forged. - by ReptilianPeon - October 14, 2015 at 5:21 pm



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