(October 12, 2015 at 6:05 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: I have yet to see a theist make a coherent case that free will can exist under the aegis of an omnimax god.
If a god created everything, then that god created human actions and the outcomes of those actions. From which hand I stir my coffee with, to whom I marry, to which university I attend - ALL of these actions are part and parcel of the universe. If there are things which a god did not create, then the case must be addressed as to whether gods create anything at all.
The case is particularly rough for the Abrahamic God. This god is teetotal fucknuts crazy when it comes to punishing people who commit evil acts. But, since there is nothing this god did not create (it says so right here in the manual), then God created the 'choices' and actions that lead to the punishment. Since there is nothing that cannot be part of God's plan, then the man who rapes and murders a child is doing 'God's will' every bit as much as the man who spends his fortune to bring food and medicine to sick, starving children - the sinner and the saint are merely performing the acts that God created at the instantiation of the universe. EVERY act, from the minute to the magnificent, is pre-planned and pre-ordained by God.
Where then is free will?
Boru
There are a couple of different ideas in your post, such as when punishment is justified, but the most relevant one for this thread is going to be a question about what, exactly, do you mean by "free will?" Determinism is compatible with the version of free will discussed in the opening post. Evidently, you mean something else, though you have not specified precisely what you do mean.
I do agree that if determinism is correct, and if an omnipotent being created everything, then everything that happens is due to that being. But I am interested in primarily having a coherent concept of "free will," and am not concerned about an imaginary god. Nor am I even concerned with whether determinism is correct or not, though, again, the concept of free will discussed in the opening thread is perfectly compatible with determinism.
"A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence."
— David Hume, An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding, Section X, Part I.
