Quote:Only a really ignorant person would view Saudi as representative of an entire religion (e.g. someone who doesn't know about Shia, Ibadi, Ahmadi etc.). All I'm saying is we don't know if Allah will let anyone from the Saudi establishment into Jannah. Even though the Saudis don't represent everyone, Allah could still accept them into Jannah because they might have done enough to enter (there is no Tafsir provided by Allah unfortunately).Committing "Sherk" or in English "worshiping a another God with God", is considered the act that shall be never forgiven by God unless the person repents :
( Sura 4 Verse 48 ) Indeed, Allah does not forgive association with Him, but He forgives what is less than that for whom He wills. And he who associates others with Allah has certainly fabricated a tremendous sin.
The Saudi royal family just did that..Wahhabism is all about "obeying" the king & the royal family, even if they "forged" what God said. That's literally "appointing them in a Godly rank".
One example, is banks which give loans with interest. It's forbidden in this verse; actually not just forbidden, but God declares war against those who deal with it :
( Sura 2 278 ) O you who have believed, fear Allah and give up what remains [due to you] of interest, if you should be believers.
( Sura 2 279 ) And if you do not, then be informed of a war [against you] from Allah and His Messenger. But if you repent, you may have your principal - [thus] you do no wrong, nor are you wronged.
Saudies made that "allowed"..and force their citizens not to talk about it (you can hit jail if you even discussed the matter ; get tortured too).
That's a highway to hell..we didn't even discuss the rest of their actions..
association..that's their sin. And the God they engulfed with Allah is the two headed freak : "the royal family-Wahhabies".
Quote:An Ismaili or an Ahmadi would never treat women like the Saudis do. In fact, Ismalis are known to have men and women pray together! It's also true that modern Sufis aren't so regressive either, though in centuries before they did used to be big on the whole Jihad thing, which surprised me. I guess these days the Sufis are too busy smoking Hashish.
In terms of extremism, nobody beat wahhabies.
Yes, other sects don't follow the same "Hadith volumes" as the Sunnies, that's why things which are forbidden to the Sunnies become allowed.
Quote: 5:32 Only applies to the "children of Israel". It even says, "Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever". So that verse does not apply to either of us.
We must believe in what was descended to them too :
( Sura 2 Verse 285 ) The Messenger has believed in what was revealed to him from his Lord, and [so have] the believers. All of them have believed in Allah and His angels and His books and His messengers, [saying], "We make no distinction between any of His messengers." And they say, "We hear and we obey. [We seek] Your forgiveness, our Lord, and to You is the [final] destination."
So what was written on them, is written on me too; I make no distinction between any of the Prophets after all..
Quote:17:33 What does the verse mean by "unjustly"? I think that all the Egyptian children that died during the time of Moses and victims of the flood of Noah were all killed "unjustly". How do we eliminate the subjectivity of the interpretation of the word "unjustly"?
"Unjustly" is being killed without killing anybody yourself; or in any case different than "self-defense".
About the flood, God kills us all after all even if we didn't kill anybody (death; for natural causes; that's God taking us away).. The case of God annihilating lifeforms for a certain reason, is different from a human "killing others".
Quote:My point with the Djinn is that I am not religious because none of the religions have succeeded in convincing me. I used to watch lots of inter religious debates (e.g. Bible VS Quran), and both sides had convincing arguments against the other side so I eventually decided that they must be both wrong. I accepted that people refuse to see the flaws in the book they are arguing for. Not to mention, the story of Noah's flood is ridiculous in both the Bible and the Quran. Take this Iyah for example:
11:42 So the Ark floated with them on the waves (towering) like mountains, and Noah called out to his son, who had separated himself (from the rest): "O my son! embark with us, and be not with the unbelievers!"
Both books are focused on this tiny area of the world, despite the claim made by Quran 10:47, a particularly ironic Iyah:
10:47 To every people (was sent) a messenger: when their messenger comes (before them), the matter will be judged between them with justice, and they will not be wronged.
The story of Noah took place in a time where humans were under one nation; check this verse :
( Sura 2 Verse 213 ) Mankind was nation; then Allah sent the prophets as bringers of good tidings and warners and sent down with them the Scripture in truth to judge between the people concerning that in which they differed. And none differed over the Scripture except those who were given it - after the clear proofs came to them - out of injustice animosity among themselves. And Allah guided those who believed to the truth concerning that over which they had differed, by His permission. And Allah guides whom He wills to a straight path.
Not a tiny area of the world..that was the WHOLE world. Noah was the first Prophet after all.
About the Prophets; if they weren't sent to use, you wouldnt've seen religion in the first place. My personal belief is that all religions we see today which are believed by huge populations, started by real Prophets, and with time got forged & twisted, with the Prophets turned into "Gods" the followers of the religion worship.
In every religion it's the same story : the supreme holy blood & his God lutanists.
Quote:Where are these messengers? Some, in particular the Ahmadis, claim that Buddha was a prophet yet I see no positive evidence for this. But this only one person. Did Allah send a prophet to the people of the Americas? I don't think so. Where was Allah when the Aztecs were enslaving people and offering them as tributes to their sun deity because they were afraid the sun wouldn't rise the next day if they didn't?
I think we have to accept the fact that prophets were not sent to all people. The verse is silly because there is no record of such things. The Chinese never spoke about such prophets. Neither did the Indians. Or the Japanese. Or the Inca. The list goes on.
But then we find out Allah is leading people astray (thus taking away their free will):
14:4 We sent not a messenger except (to teach) in the language of his (own) people, in order to make (things) clear to them. Now Allah leaves straying those whom He pleases and guides whom He pleases: and He is Exalted in power, full of Wisdom.
The European invasion was the mayan's doom. The punishment. They were annihilated in front of the whole world. But of course; we'll never forget the dirty hand of the "tool" that did that to them..anyhow, their forged religion is no more.
As I told you above : yes. Somebody was sent to them; and they took his teachings and forged them, just like Christians did, and just like MUSLIMS DO TODAY.
To India and China, the Prophets can be as ancient as Hinduism itself ; the records of the world left many things shrouded in mystery.
About 14:4. In Arabic, it's " And " instead of " Now ". It changes the meaning a lot..in other words; God didn't reveal it in a different tongue so he send people astray. People go astray because of the sins they do.
