Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: November 26, 2024, 9:06 pm

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Actual Infinities
#57
RE: Actual Infinities
(October 28, 2015 at 9:23 pm)Nestor Wrote:
(October 28, 2015 at 5:29 pm)Mathilda Wrote: An object can only be capable of being known if there is an observer capable of knowing about it.
Do objects possess any qualities absent of perception or do such properties, whether primary or secondary, subsist only in the knower? If they exist solely in the knowing subject and not in the known object, then what is an object and in what way do these exist outside of the mind? If qualities such such as shape, extension, location, etc. are intrinsic to the nature of objects that exist in an external void, known or otherwise, then they possess distinct features from which logical principles necessarily follow. Thus, humans didn't "invent" reason, they discovered it through the intellectual faculty categorizing sense data of external properties. Similarly, the rules that govern mathematical relationships are known as a result of discovery by the intellect in the same way that knowledge of external objects is acquired through such senses as "sight" or "touch". It isn't necessarily the case that I'm not a brain in a vat, but I see no reason to begin with that premise.

Isn't there a third possibility - that the objects (the world) indeed exist outside of the mind, but are not in their nature the same as the representations of them in our minds - e.g. they may inspire logic and reason, because evolutionarily, logic and reason are successful strategies for interacting with them - but that does not mean that they themselves possess some sort of exact templates for logic and reason?
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition

Reply



Messages In This Thread
Actual Infinities - by Mudhammam - October 28, 2015 at 1:23 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by Alex K - October 28, 2015 at 1:42 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by Mudhammam - October 28, 2015 at 2:11 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by Jenny A - October 28, 2015 at 2:28 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by Mudhammam - October 28, 2015 at 4:04 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by Edwardo Piet - October 28, 2015 at 9:32 pm
RE: Actual Infinities - by Silver - October 28, 2015 at 2:31 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by Jenny A - October 28, 2015 at 2:33 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by houseofcantor - October 28, 2015 at 3:16 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by Grandizer - October 28, 2015 at 3:22 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by Anomalocaris - October 28, 2015 at 1:25 pm
RE: Actual Infinities - by robvalue - October 28, 2015 at 3:18 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by robvalue - October 28, 2015 at 3:38 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by Grandizer - October 28, 2015 at 3:43 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by Mudhammam - October 28, 2015 at 4:19 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by Neo-Scholastic - October 28, 2015 at 1:21 pm
RE: Actual Infinities - by Grandizer - October 28, 2015 at 1:48 pm
RE: Actual Infinities - by Angrboda - October 28, 2015 at 2:36 pm
RE: Actual Infinities - by Neo-Scholastic - October 28, 2015 at 2:48 pm
RE: Actual Infinities - by I_am_not_mafia - October 28, 2015 at 3:29 pm
RE: Actual Infinities - by Neo-Scholastic - October 28, 2015 at 4:22 pm
RE: Actual Infinities - by I_am_not_mafia - October 28, 2015 at 4:29 pm
RE: Actual Infinities - by Grandizer - October 28, 2015 at 9:03 pm
RE: Actual Infinities - by Silver - October 28, 2015 at 3:44 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by robvalue - October 28, 2015 at 3:50 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by TheRealJoeFish - October 28, 2015 at 1:27 pm
RE: Actual Infinities - by Alex K - October 28, 2015 at 4:27 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by Mudhammam - October 28, 2015 at 5:32 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by robvalue - October 28, 2015 at 4:27 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by I_am_not_mafia - October 28, 2015 at 5:24 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by ErGingerbreadMandude - October 28, 2015 at 5:41 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by Wyrd of Gawd - October 28, 2015 at 11:23 pm
RE: Actual Infinities - by ErGingerbreadMandude - October 29, 2015 at 7:15 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by robvalue - October 28, 2015 at 5:44 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by I_am_not_mafia - October 28, 2015 at 6:08 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by robvalue - October 28, 2015 at 6:11 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by I_am_not_mafia - October 28, 2015 at 6:18 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by Alex K - October 28, 2015 at 6:21 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by I_am_not_mafia - October 28, 2015 at 6:34 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by Alex K - October 28, 2015 at 6:40 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by robvalue - October 28, 2015 at 6:24 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by ErGingerbreadMandude - October 28, 2015 at 6:28 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by Alex K - October 28, 2015 at 6:32 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by Neo-Scholastic - October 28, 2015 at 1:04 pm
RE: Actual Infinities - by robvalue - October 28, 2015 at 1:26 pm
RE: Actual Infinities - by Alex K - October 28, 2015 at 2:57 pm
RE: Actual Infinities - by Neo-Scholastic - October 28, 2015 at 4:32 pm
RE: Actual Infinities - by I_am_not_mafia - October 28, 2015 at 4:35 pm
RE: Actual Infinities - by Neo-Scholastic - October 28, 2015 at 4:52 pm
RE: Actual Infinities - by I_am_not_mafia - October 28, 2015 at 5:13 pm
RE: Actual Infinities - by Anomalocaris - October 28, 2015 at 5:16 pm
RE: Actual Infinities - by I_am_not_mafia - October 28, 2015 at 5:19 pm
RE: Actual Infinities - by Neo-Scholastic - October 28, 2015 at 5:24 pm
RE: Actual Infinities - by I_am_not_mafia - October 28, 2015 at 5:29 pm
RE: Actual Infinities - by Mudhammam - October 28, 2015 at 9:23 pm
RE: Actual Infinities - by Alex K - October 29, 2015 at 3:52 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by I_am_not_mafia - October 29, 2015 at 5:21 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by Mudhammam - October 29, 2015 at 8:03 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by Alex K - October 29, 2015 at 8:05 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by Mudhammam - October 29, 2015 at 8:16 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by I_am_not_mafia - October 29, 2015 at 5:10 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by Mudhammam - October 29, 2015 at 8:12 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by I_am_not_mafia - October 29, 2015 at 9:25 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by Grandizer - October 30, 2015 at 3:48 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by I_am_not_mafia - October 30, 2015 at 4:58 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by Wyrd of Gawd - October 28, 2015 at 11:28 pm
RE: Actual Infinities - by Excited Penguin - October 28, 2015 at 9:16 pm
RE: Actual Infinities - by ignoramus - October 29, 2015 at 5:02 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by Alex K - October 29, 2015 at 6:06 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by ErGingerbreadMandude - October 29, 2015 at 7:11 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by houseofcantor - October 29, 2015 at 10:31 pm
RE: Actual Infinities - by ignoramus - October 29, 2015 at 11:42 pm
RE: Actual Infinities - by houseofcantor - October 30, 2015 at 4:23 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by ignoramus - October 30, 2015 at 4:55 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by Alex K - October 30, 2015 at 5:07 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by houseofcantor - October 30, 2015 at 5:17 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by Alex K - October 30, 2015 at 5:39 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by Alex K - October 30, 2015 at 5:10 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by Anomalocaris - October 30, 2015 at 7:41 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by houseofcantor - October 30, 2015 at 8:22 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by robvalue - October 29, 2015 at 5:08 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by ignoramus - October 29, 2015 at 6:28 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by Alex K - October 29, 2015 at 8:18 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by Mudhammam - October 29, 2015 at 8:20 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by Mudhammam - October 29, 2015 at 8:26 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by Alex K - October 29, 2015 at 9:43 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by Neo-Scholastic - October 29, 2015 at 9:41 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by I_am_not_mafia - October 29, 2015 at 11:02 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by Neo-Scholastic - October 29, 2015 at 12:45 pm
RE: Actual Infinities - by I_am_not_mafia - October 29, 2015 at 6:56 pm
RE: Actual Infinities - by Neo-Scholastic - October 29, 2015 at 12:42 pm
RE: Actual Infinities - by Mudhammam - October 29, 2015 at 5:18 pm
RE: Actual Infinities - by Mudhammam - October 29, 2015 at 7:02 pm
RE: Actual Infinities - by I_am_not_mafia - October 29, 2015 at 7:20 pm
RE: Actual Infinities - by Mudhammam - October 29, 2015 at 8:00 pm
RE: Actual Infinities - by I_am_not_mafia - October 29, 2015 at 8:09 pm
RE: Actual Infinities - by Mudhammam - October 29, 2015 at 9:31 pm
RE: Actual Infinities - by I_am_not_mafia - October 30, 2015 at 3:02 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by Neo-Scholastic - October 30, 2015 at 8:43 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by I_am_not_mafia - October 30, 2015 at 9:12 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by Mudhammam - October 30, 2015 at 9:57 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by I_am_not_mafia - October 30, 2015 at 10:32 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by MysticKnight - October 29, 2015 at 9:44 pm
RE: Actual Infinities - by Mudhammam - October 29, 2015 at 9:48 pm
RE: Actual Infinities - by MysticKnight - October 29, 2015 at 9:51 pm
RE: Actual Infinities - by Mudhammam - October 29, 2015 at 11:39 pm
RE: Actual Infinities - by robvalue - October 30, 2015 at 3:11 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by I_am_not_mafia - October 30, 2015 at 5:23 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by Alex K - October 30, 2015 at 5:42 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by ignoramus - October 30, 2015 at 5:28 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by ignoramus - October 30, 2015 at 7:48 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by Anomalocaris - October 30, 2015 at 7:57 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by ignoramus - October 30, 2015 at 5:32 pm
RE: Actual Infinities - by Anomalocaris - October 30, 2015 at 6:08 pm
RE: Actual Infinities - by robvalue - October 30, 2015 at 7:49 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by ignoramus - October 30, 2015 at 7:51 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by Neo-Scholastic - October 30, 2015 at 11:17 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by Neo-Scholastic - November 4, 2015 at 2:07 pm
RE: Actual Infinities - by Mudhammam - November 4, 2015 at 6:15 pm
RE: Actual Infinities - by Alex K - November 4, 2015 at 2:55 pm
RE: Actual Infinities - by Neo-Scholastic - November 4, 2015 at 3:28 pm
RE: Actual Infinities - by Alex K - November 4, 2015 at 3:34 pm
RE: Actual Infinities - by houseofcantor - November 4, 2015 at 3:50 pm
RE: Actual Infinities - by I_am_not_mafia - November 4, 2015 at 4:16 pm
RE: Actual Infinities - by Angrboda - November 4, 2015 at 6:26 pm
RE: Actual Infinities - by Neo-Scholastic - November 4, 2015 at 6:30 pm
RE: Actual Infinities - by Mudhammam - November 4, 2015 at 10:40 pm
RE: Actual Infinities - by jenny1972 - November 4, 2015 at 11:29 pm
RE: Actual Infinities - by Mudhammam - November 5, 2015 at 1:39 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by Edwardo Piet - November 5, 2015 at 1:48 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by Mudhammam - November 5, 2015 at 2:26 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by houseofcantor - November 5, 2015 at 9:10 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by Mudhammam - November 5, 2015 at 9:28 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by houseofcantor - November 5, 2015 at 9:33 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by Edwardo Piet - November 5, 2015 at 2:35 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by Reforged - November 5, 2015 at 2:59 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by robvalue - November 5, 2015 at 3:14 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by I_am_not_mafia - November 5, 2015 at 3:20 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by Edwardo Piet - November 5, 2015 at 10:12 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by houseofcantor - November 5, 2015 at 10:16 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by robvalue - November 5, 2015 at 3:21 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by ignoramus - November 5, 2015 at 6:25 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by robvalue - November 5, 2015 at 7:14 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by Alex K - November 5, 2015 at 7:32 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by robvalue - November 5, 2015 at 8:45 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by I_am_not_mafia - November 5, 2015 at 3:46 pm
RE: Actual Infinities - by ErGingerbreadMandude - November 5, 2015 at 7:41 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by Edwardo Piet - November 5, 2015 at 10:21 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by robvalue - November 5, 2015 at 11:14 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by Angrboda - November 5, 2015 at 3:53 pm
RE: Actual Infinities - by robvalue - November 5, 2015 at 3:55 pm
RE: Actual Infinities - by Mudhammam - November 5, 2015 at 6:52 pm
RE: Actual Infinities - by robvalue - November 6, 2015 at 3:05 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by Edwardo Piet - November 6, 2015 at 11:18 am
RE: Actual Infinities - by Neo-Scholastic - November 6, 2015 at 8:48 am

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  So, what would an actual 'biblical' flood look like ?? vorlon13 64 16654 August 30, 2017 at 7:21 pm
Last Post: Edwardo Piet
  What was the actual sacrifice that Jesus made? pgrimes15 78 41909 August 24, 2012 at 12:26 am
Last Post: Minimalist
  ACTUAL prophet of Jesus here Telsa 64 20469 March 31, 2012 at 11:29 am
Last Post: Cinjin



Users browsing this thread: 2 Guest(s)