RE: Exposing the Intellectual Bankruptcy of Atheists Criticizing Religion
November 20, 2015 at 3:30 pm
(November 20, 2015 at 12:22 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:(November 19, 2015 at 5:50 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: You keep forgetting how simply referencing QM in a vague and general way can justify everything from precognition to Idealism. I'm asking for one specific QM experiment that makes impossible an umoved mover/first cause/necessary being/guiding intelligence.
And while you're at it, maybe you can name an outdated observation about reality in the Five Ways other than those examples used for illustration.
We have observed particles coming into existence which have no cause. That means that the observation that "everything must have a cause" is obsolete. This is a result of QM.
Now, you don't get to feign ignorance of this any more. It undermines a key tenet of the Five Ways, and you have been made aware of it. I had expected that after my mentioning this upthread, you would have read up on it yourself or at least asked questions about why I thought it applied; but you went instead with pretending that the exchange didn't happen.
Tell me more about the "intellectual bankruptcy of atheists", Chad.
I’m a layman so I’m not going to argue about the details of QM. I’m guessing that you think ‘virtual’ particles just pop in an out of existence for no reason at all from nothing at all. That’s not the impression I get from reading articles made for the lay public such as the following:
http://profmattstrassler.com/2011/10/10/...les-at-all
&
http://www.scientificamerican.com/articl...s-of-light
For some reason virtual particles are always placed in quotes like “virtual particles.” Likewise all the articles I read consistently point out that the vacuum out of which they come isn’t technically ‘nothing’, but an actual something.
There are other equally puzzling QM findings that cut the other way and put conscious observation as an actual causal agent:
http://discovermagazine.com/2002/jun/featuniverse
Backed by experiment…
http://www.gizmag.com/quantum-theory-reality-anu/37866
But this theory (creation of physical reality by observation) and confirming experimental evidence raise an even more interesting puzzle. How can physical reality be created by observers that were themselves created as a result of operations within the physical universe? Sounds perilously like an infinite essentially ordered sequence! It seems to me that the existence of all the potential & possible observers depends on an actual & necessary observer.
But that’s QM for you. It can be used to justify just about any version of woo to which one is partial, even atheistic woo.