CHAOS!!!

[Violet]

I meant, can't you attain all of those things in ways that don't require you praying to an invisible sky daddy?

I certainly can... and I imagine most people could. Prayer is just another way to do it.

I'm not saying I don't understand what you mean. You use the prayer before meal example to promote a sense of calm - I'll give you another: At the beginning of the Jewish Sabbath, the wife of the house or oldest daughter lights the two Sabbath candles, draws her hands over them three times to "gather the light to her", covers her eyes with her hands and while she says the prayer to welcome in shabbat she's supposed to think only of the light of rest and peace. It's supposed to be the turning moment when you move from the work and strain of the week to the relaxation of the day of rest. It's a nice little ritual.

I get the same effect by sitting still and taking one breath in and letting one breath out. Or taking a bath. Or having a small glass of wine. Or going on a run. Or having a quickie. I mean, there are myriad ways of attaining a sense of calm without bringing something inherently religious into it.

I don't get the effect from praying, ritual, deep breathing, especially not bathing (though the warmth of the water does relax me a bit with how cold this house can be at times), win, running... fast sex usually just serves to keep me wanting.

There are indeed many ways of attaining a sense of calm without doing anything religious... just as there are many ways of attaining a sense of calm without physical exertion. I just think it's unfair to deny one form of calm to others simply because you don't find it calming.