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Riding on a Cosmic String
#15
RE: Riding on a Cosmic String
AtheistPhil Wrote:Do you notice that every word in bold are all macroscopic, common, material concepts located in a 3 dimension space. The scene described here to define the concept of "As-Sirāt" could be easily painted for example.

Yes, that obviously seems to be true when you look at the words being used to describe the bridge such as "thin," "long," "narrow," "sharp," "hooks," "thorny," etc.

But even a cosmic string is a macroscopic object that exists in a 3-dimensional space. For example, they are often described as being "lines of pure-mass energy," "dense," and "extremely thin," and they can also be detected by their gravitational effects on distant galaxies. In one article, I read that cosmic strings are like lines of pure mass-energy "stretching across the entire universe" (article). This means that a cosmic string is a classical macroscopic object. And that implies that it is located in a 3-dimensional space.

The strings in string theory, which are called superstrings, are quantum objects, while a cosmic string on the other hand is a classical object. I can provide a link to this if you want to see it.

AtheistPhil Wrote:On the other hand, we have here a hypothetical "object" based on mathematical concepts, and impossible to paint.

Cosmic strings are based on mathematical concepts indeed, but they also have a physical structure as well (if they exist). There's no need to paint anything, AP.

AtheistPhil Wrote:This seems in contradiction with the definition on wikipedia...

No, in the second paragraph in wikipedia, it says:

"Cosmic strings, if they exist, would be extremely thin with diameters of the same order of magnitude as that of a proton, i.e. ~ 1 fm, or smaller."

AtheistPhil Wrote:1. cosmic strings are 1-dimensional...so no width....

That is a misunderstanding because cosmic strings are only studied as 1-dimensional objects, but actually, they are 2-dimensional worldsheets which have a length and a width, but no height. The only reason that their width is ignored is because it is way too small to be even counted in the mathematical models, but they do have a tiny (non-zero) width as I mentioned above in the underlined words. Here's what it says in the wikipedia article:

"Cosmic strings, if they exist, would be extremely thin with diameters of the same order of magnitude as that of a proton, i.e. ~ 1 fm, or smaller. Given that this scale is much smaller than any cosmological scale these strings are often studied in the zero width, or Nambu-Goto approximation. Under this assumption strings behave as one-dimensional objects and obey the Nambu-Goto action, which is classically equivalent to the Polyakov action that defines the bosonic sector of superstring theory."

This means that a cosmic string can be accurately modeled by a one-dimensional object since the width of the string is basically counted as negligible.

AtheistPhil Wrote:2.cusp: In the mathematical theory of singularities a cusp is a type of singular point of a curve. Cusps are local singularities in that they are not formed by self intersection points of the curve. hook: curved piece of metal or other material by which things are hung or attached.

Yes, that's the right definition of a cusp.

But they also have a small-scale structure with a range of possible shapes, not just a singular point on a curve. See an article titled "Cosmic string cusps with small-scale structure: Their forms and gravitational waveforms." Also, the idea that there are such "curves" on a cosmic string is in correspondence with the Islamic belief that there will be "hooks" on the bridge as mentioned in the quotes in my original post.

AtheistPhil Wrote:3.Where exactly did you justify that "objects that get attached to a cosmic string can also travel at extremely fast speeds." ?

It's already in my original post in bold letters. I'll quote it here once again:

"Objects attached to a cosmic string could travel at incredible speeds, and because their gravitational force distorts spacetime, they could be used for time travel" (article).

AtheistPhil Wrote:And knowing that cosmic strings are 1 dimensional I have doubts about "conventional 3-dimensional objects" traveling on those, and I'm not even talking about humans...

I have just explained to you that cosmic strings are not 1-dimensional since they have a very small thickness which is equal to the diameter of a proton or smaller.

Secondly, I mentioned in my original post that a physicist named Richard Gott has proposed a theoretical method of "using" cosmic strings to make a time machine by going around them with a spaceship. I'm aware of the fact that this is only theoretical and almost impossible to build with our current technology. But at least, his theory supports the idea that travelling on a cosmic string by 3-dimensional beings is not impossible if such an object was to come to us naturally (by some kind of a miracle) as opposed to going to a cosmic string by ourselves.

AtheistPhil Wrote:Cosmic strings aren't described as actual strings, it's named "strings" to be easily imagined in one's mind, but these "objects" are conceptually as far away as possible from the macroscopic 3-dimensional concepts of "bridge", "chair", "car",etc...

And this could be the same application for the As-Sirat bridge. The bridge is not an actual, ordinary bridge that we think of. It is a bridge that is thinner than a hair and sharper than sword. This is what makes the bridge so different from an ordinary 3-dimensional bridge. Allah only told us that this is a "bridge" to be easily imagined in one's mind, just like a cosmic string is described as a "string" so that it can be easily imagined in one's mind. Smile

TheDarkestOfAngels Wrote:That being said, your concept of what string theory is is utter nonsense and appears to be a jumble of out-of-context quote mining.

I'm not talking about string theory. The topic is about cosmic strings.

The strings in string theory (which are called superstrings) and a cosmic string are two different things entirely (even though there's a relation between them).

TheDarkestOfAngels Wrote:The strings of string theory are the smallest things to exist, one dimensional, and vibrate. Some versions of string theory are looped into itself and others have the ends of the string taper off into nothing.

I know that already. But the strings in string theory and a cosmic string are not the same thing. See THIS.

TheDarkestOfAngels Wrote:Further, strings in string theory are one-dimensional ribbons that are the smallest things to theoretically exist. Some versions of string theory are closed loops whereas others have open-ended loops and others still may include both. They vibrate at differing wavelengths to form pretty much everything.

Again, the topic is not about the strings in string theory. You are talking about superstrings whereas I'm talking about a cosmic string. Smile

TheDarkestOfAngels Wrote:I should also note that you contradict yourself because your religious quote states that the string is only visible to Allah but your cosmic string quote literally states that such a thing should be visible across the night sky.

That's wrong, because the religious quotes do no say that the bridge is only visible to Allah. Rather, the second hadith which I quoted (and made it bold) says that only the size of the hooks is known to Allah. But I didn't across anything which says that the bridge cannot be seen by the others. If you did, then just point out the exact quote or sentence in my original post which supports that.

TheDarkestOfAngels Wrote:This is absolutely nonsense. According to your links, the 'kinks and cusps' of cosmic strings shoot gamma radiation out into space and bend space in a manner that has temporal and space-bendign applications to a civilization capable enough to take advantage of it.

A cusp on a cosmic string does emit gamma radiation which I quoted before: "As cosmic strings oscillate, certain fast-moving parts of them called 'cusps' should produce narrow, well-directed beams of gamma rays that could give an observer crossing their path the effect of sharp bursts." Also, the space-bending properties of a cosmic string are created by the enormous density which causes the space-time to be warped around them (like that of a black hole).

I'm not exactly sure how a civilization will be able to take advantage of a cosmic string, though. I think that only God will bring such a thing closer to us in the future when the time comes.

TheDarkestOfAngels Wrote:Your bridge of hell has literal hooks and cusps that actually are used to hook and cusp things. The use of those terms are entirely different between your quoted sources.

That can't be known because the "hooks" on the bridge could be literal objects to the same extent as the "cusps" on a cosmic string are. Why? Because during the Prophet's time, there were no such scientific terms such as "cusps" and "cosmic strings" in the Arabic language. Therefore, God revealed it to him by using simpler words and in a way that people can understand him, and yet, what is amazing is that these words are very much analogous to the hook-like structures on a cosmic string.

The Prophet even said that the bridge is thinner than a hair. Of course, he couldn't have said that the bridge is "thinner than the nucleus of atom" since such words didn't even exist during time, hence the words "thinner than a hair" are used in the Islamic narrations. And there is no contradiction.

Also, we are told that the bridge will be sharper than a sword. This means that the bridge has a characteristic of sharpness to it. What about a cosmic string then? Well, after looking at some articles on cosmic strings, I learned that they behave like a powerful superconductor, which means that that they posses a large amount of electric current. See this article. And in that sense, my idea is that the terms "sharpness" (of the bridge) and "electric currents" (of a cosmic string) could be viewed as pretty much analogous to each other because both will give us a feeling of pain or being scratched as by cutting into our skin.

TheDarkestOfAngels Wrote:Your bridge of hell is even supposed to use these for a specific purpose, to which cosmic strings have no such purpose.

Cosmic strings could theoretically enable information to move from one place to another. They could even transport us into a higher-dimensional brane (where Heaven might exist). So, this could be one of the purposes of a cosmic string since it acts like a "bridge" that leads to a different place. Nobody knows for sure where it may lead us, though, but according to my theory that the bridge called "As-Sirat" is a type of cosmic string it would serve as narrow pathway to a different reality which is more beautiful than the universe, which is Heaven.

TheDarkestOfAngels Wrote:Cosmic strings can only transport you anywhere with the aid of yet-undiscovered technology and doesn't transport you across anything or to anywhere specific. As you no doubt know, this is completely different from your religious source material.

The bridge that I'm talking about will transport us to Heaven (according to the Islamic belief), whereas a cosmic string could also transport us to a different place, with the only difference being that nobody knows if a cosmic string is connected to Heaven or not. However, since there are already so many similarities between the bridge and a cosmic string, it is more likely that the bridge is a cosmic string than anything else, and if this is true, then it should also follow that a cosmic string can act like a bridge to Heaven since the two objects (the bridge and a cosmic string) are very possibly one and the same thing. Smile

TheDarkestOfAngels Wrote:Which is to say that transporting something at relativistic speeds isn't as quick as the wink of an eye, lightning, or any of the mentioned speeds.

In my original post, I have already provided the quotes and links which say that an object attached to a cosmic string could travel at an incredible speed (and even allow time travel) and this idea matches with the hadith which says that some of the believers will cross the bridge as fast as "lightning" or like the "wink of an eye" or like a "strong wind," etc. There is no contradiction.

TheDarkestOfAngels Wrote:If by something else you mean 'imaginary' then yes.

No, most likely the bridge is not imaginary because I have supported this with several different reasons (by making connections to it with a cosmic string).

TheDarkestOfAngels Wrote:Your connections are tenuous super-generalizations that breaks apart as soon as you get past the most basic of similarities.

Super-generalizations? Maybe not, but let's take a look at the connections once again (as well as two more which I added below):

1. They are both strings which are long and narrower than the width of a hair.
2. The bridge will have hooks on the sides. Cosmic strings also has what physicists call "cusps" and "kinks" on them which are sharp and pointed ends on a cosmic string.
3. Some people will cross the bridge as fast as lightning. Similarly, objects that get attached to a cosmic string can also travel at extremely fast speeds.
4. The bridge will be very sharp whereas a cosmic string can emit powerful electric currents. In this manner, both of the objects can cause us to get scratched on our skin and bodies.
5. The hooks on the bridge are able to "snatch" people according to their deeds, which means that they can move on the bridge, while the tip of a cosmic string cusp moves at the speed of light.
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Messages In This Thread
Riding on a Cosmic String - by Rayaan - January 5, 2011 at 1:29 pm
RE: Riding on a Cosmic String - by Darwinian - January 5, 2011 at 1:33 pm
RE: Riding on a Cosmic String - by Rayaan - January 5, 2011 at 1:44 pm
RE: Riding on a Cosmic String - by Anomalocaris - January 5, 2011 at 3:26 pm
RE: Riding on a Cosmic String - by reverendjeremiah - June 5, 2011 at 1:36 pm
RE: Riding on a Cosmic String - by Thor - January 5, 2011 at 1:51 pm
RE: Riding on a Cosmic String - by Rayaan - January 5, 2011 at 2:18 pm
RE: Riding on a Cosmic String - by DeistPaladin - January 5, 2011 at 2:34 pm
RE: Riding on a Cosmic String - by Thor - January 5, 2011 at 4:28 pm
RE: Riding on a Cosmic String - by thesummerqueen - January 5, 2011 at 3:49 pm
RE: Riding on a Cosmic String - by reverendjeremiah - June 5, 2011 at 1:48 pm
RE: Riding on a Cosmic String - by AtheistPhil - January 5, 2011 at 4:07 pm
RE: Riding on a Cosmic String - by Rayaan - January 5, 2011 at 4:59 pm
RE: Riding on a Cosmic String - by DeistPaladin - January 5, 2011 at 5:33 pm
RE: Riding on a Cosmic String - by TheDarkestOfAngels - January 5, 2011 at 5:38 pm
RE: Riding on a Cosmic String - by Autumnlicious - January 5, 2011 at 6:46 pm
RE: Riding on a Cosmic String - by Rayaan - January 8, 2011 at 7:57 am
RE: Riding on a Cosmic String - by TheDarkestOfAngels - January 8, 2011 at 2:44 pm
RE: Riding on a Cosmic String - by Rayaan - June 5, 2011 at 4:49 am
RE: Riding on a Cosmic String - by Violet - June 5, 2011 at 4:57 am
RE: Riding on a Cosmic String - by Rayaan - June 5, 2011 at 5:06 am
RE: Riding on a Cosmic String - by KichigaiNeko - June 5, 2011 at 5:11 am
RE: Riding on a Cosmic String - by Rayaan - June 5, 2011 at 5:21 am
RE: Riding on a Cosmic String - by KichigaiNeko - June 5, 2011 at 5:35 am
RE: Riding on a Cosmic String - by LastPoet - June 5, 2011 at 1:48 pm



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