(December 7, 2015 at 9:04 am)RobbyPants Wrote: Theist apologists frequently cite free will as being the answer to the problem of evil. It's important that we have the choice to do bad things, even though we're not supposed to do those bad things. So, when people cause problems, we are to blame, even if God could have prevented it.Are you talking about compatibilist or libertarian free-will?
(December 7, 2015 at 9:04 am)RobbyPants Wrote: The problem of this bit of apologetics is it doesn't mesh with the other half of what they claim to believe. It doesn't take good into account. People are always praising God for things that people do. I'm constantly hearing praises for getting a new job, getting better after medical treatment, or doing well on a test after studying. Every single one of these things hinge on human action. When people do good things, they say it is because of God and not the person (don't want to admit to pride), but it's never God's fault when they do bad things.You're making a category error here. You're initial claim is that people do [morally] bad things. Then you claim people do good things. You list getting a new job, healing, and doing well on a test as good things. But these are not [morally] good things. Certainly you wouldn't claim that not healing after surgery is immoral, would you? I'm not saying your entire argument is flawed, but if you are speaking of good and bad within the context of morality, your examples need to reflect the same category.
(December 7, 2015 at 9:04 am)RobbyPants Wrote: So, when everything is going great in the world, apparently God can muck around with that all day long, and anything good that happens ever is because of God. But all the bad stuff is never his fault. That's just us. Their stated belief is that God is such a powerful being that he literally sticks his hands in every facet of life, no matter how small, until it comes to us misbehaving. Then, he takes a strictly hands-off approach, because we need to be free to misbehave. Even more strange is that God gets people jobs, allows medical treatment to work, and lets people recall key facts on tests regardless of their behavior. There seems to be no correlation between a person's behavior and how often God "blesses" them.The conclusion needs to be rephrased in order to avoid the category mistake. "Good things" is too broad is it includes both moral and amoral actions.
If moral autonomy is so precious to the theist apologist, they should stop giving their god credit for the good things people do. I thought people have to be free to make those good choices. This god of special pleading is fatiguing and trite.
Is: "If moral autonomy is so precious to the theist apologist, they should stop giving their god credit for the moral things people do" a satisfactory statement?
If it could be proven beyond doubt that God exists...
and that He is the one spoken of in the Bible...
would you repent of your sins and place your faith in Jesus Christ?