(December 8, 2015 at 4:29 pm)orangebox21 Wrote: No Christian perfectly represents Christ. You will always be able to find ways in which we are not living in accordance to the truth. Hopefully you are able to see this as our personal imperfection, not as a valid expression of Christ or Christian living.
Yes, but again: I was talking about inconsistency in apologetics. Nowhere do I make the assumption that any person is perfect; it's just the flip-flopping on apologetics gets annoying.
(December 8, 2015 at 4:29 pm)orangebox21 Wrote: Do you agree that we are personally responsible for our actions?
If we're assuming the world isn't deterministic, then yes, but that is a red herring. I was replying to what you said in the previous post:
(December 7, 2015 at 4:18 pm)orangebox21 Wrote: If the good we do is not of ourselves, but rather Christ living within us, then it logically follows that God should get the glory for the good we do. And if we bear within ourselves a sinful nature, then we bear the blame for the bad we do. Special pleading is when an exemption is made without adequate justification. In this case the exemption: God is responsible when we do good, but not responsible when we do bad, is made because in one instance it is me acting, and in the other instance it is God acting.
(Emphasis mine)
Yes, but if we can only do good by God's acting, why doesn't he "act" more often? Once it becomes impossible to be good without God taking an action, all instances of us not being good become God's fault. It's his fault if his action or inaction is the single determining factor of the outcome.
Also, God only gets credit for good, but not bad. We get blamed for the bad, but not credit for good... yet Satan is listed as tempting us. Why doesn't Satan get blamed for the bad, instead?
(December 8, 2015 at 4:29 pm)orangebox21 Wrote: We do need to define our terms here to avoid confusion.
Compatibilist free will- The notion that our choices are compatible with determination.
Libertarian free will- Libertarian free will means that our choices are free from the determination or constraints of human nature and free from any predetermination by God.
From a Christian worldview, determinism is a result of the sovereignty of God, and in a materialistic worldview, determinism is a result of naturalistic processes.
I would like to point out here that our worldviews share the same challenge. From a libertarian free will perspective, how can God be sovereign? And in a materialist worldview (which is deterministic in nature), how can libertarian free will even exist? From a compatibilist perspective, if we are predetermined (by a sovereign God or natural processes) to a certain action, can our free will be held responsible for that action? And which answer most accurately represents reality?
further compatibilist reading
Thanks for the clarification. I'm assuming most people use the word in the libertarian sense.
