My Escatological Vision

[dqualk]

dqualk,

All your talk about the soul and the metaphysical realm is pure speculation. You have no evidence for it, and you don't think any evidence is even required. You just 'know' it's true, you just accept it 'a priori.' That is not how you approach a rational discussion.

One must accept certain a-priori beliefs, like I exist, which also cannont be proven.

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@Jaysyn Indentured servants are different than slaves. The Bible is consistent in teaching, especially the New Testament which supercedes the old, that all men are children of God. Paul is simply recognizing reality, and giving his advise when in a certain situation. The Bible clearly teaches that man cannot be property, as it states that we are all created in the image of God and how can one put a price on the image of God. Further all Christians are equal within Christianity, this is clearly taught by Paul who says there is no longer slave nor freeman but only children of God.

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@ Dotard

Where did I say that I believed that?

You said right here, "You're asking me to respect a belief that the supernatural exists? Like ghosts, warlocks, witches, zombies, Harry Potter and such? Sorry, can't do that. I refuse to respect those beliefs [b]and quite frankly I'm not going to respect the people that hold them."

There is a perfectly legitimate and rational reason why homosexuality is wrong.

Like catholics? Christians? Muslims? Jews? etc. etc. etc. etc.?

The Church teaches that all men are children of God and that we all have the natural light of reason so we can all find common ground. Further the Church teaches that we should be kind and understanding of all people, the Good Samaritan is a perfect example of this. At the same time we believe that we are correct, but those Christians who use their belief that they are correct as a way to be arrogant, they are disobeying the spirit of Christ, as the Church teaches that any good thing we do is only a result of responding to God's first action of giving us grace. In that sense we can do no good thing apart from God's grace. Christ and the Church teach that if they are not against us then they are for us. Christ recognized righteousness in pagans, for example he said that no man in Israel had greater faith than the Roman who asked Jesus to heal his servant. Christ said forgive them for they know not what they do.

It is true that some Christians use their faith as a way to be arrogant. In this regard they are being terrible witnesses. The Church recognizes that there are good things within all religions and even within atheism. The Church also recognizes taht God is not bound by the visible boundaries of the Church, becuase God knows the condition of man's heart and what he would have done in any given situation. For this reason it is certainly possible that God's salvation has extened beyond the visible walls of the Church.

I resepect all thouse who seek truth in charity. I have no respect for uncharitable actions, whether they are commited by Christians, Muslims or atheists.

Also if you are going to be critical about Christianity than be real about what we believe. I understand it is far easier to attack a straw man but at some point you have to grow up and confront what Christ really teaches through His Church on earth, love your enemy, good is good in and of itself, be humble etc. It is true that to often people abuse the name of Christ and scandalize the Church, but at some point you have to see through men's failures and see the truth of what Christ teaches. His message is of love and peace, simply. Christ teaches that all of the law is summarized in this, love God and love your neighbor as yourself, he further states the golden rule, do unto others as you would have them do to you.

What if I am seeking only truth without the charity part? Do I still maintain your "Great Respect"?

I respect you as a child of God, of whom Jesus loved so dearly that he suffered, died and was buried, however, I do not respect your uncharitable acts, hate the evil love the person.

I may be wrong however I think if you are accepting 'things' as a-priori then that 'light of reason' just got dimmer.

With respect, there is no reason unless you a priori accept that it exists, as there is no way to prove that there is reason.

to whom?

You were created with value, and you were further purchased at the highest price, the life of Christ. It is in your very nature that you are valuable, and you know it, even if you just beleive it as a delusion.

your light of reason just got extinguished

Reason rests upon a-priori assumptions.

So if you are a random collection of atoms brought about by collisions then somehow you don't exist?
Put that one back in your ass where you pulled it out of please.

No you as a person do not exist, within atheism. There is no form of you floating about in a metaphysical realm. You are a delusion created by the chance collision of atoms.

For the record, and let be heard that, you call me delusional becaues I believe that raping a child is evil always and everywhere. Be it known that I am delusional becuase I believe that I have a rational soul. that makes me uniquely a true individual who can actually will things of my own power. I am delusional becuase I belive I have a true will, that emanates from my soul, and not from random collisions. Be it known that I am delusional because I believe that humans are truly in and of themselves beautiful, even if they can be radically depraved at times. Mozarts requiem Mass is truly beautiful, not just beautiful in a delluded sense. Be it known that I am delusional because I believe that I love becuase of beauty, not that something is beautiful becuase I love it. No! You are delusional for beliveing that there is no intrinsic value, that love is not real. Love is real, I know it, I feel it, it is more real to me than this keyboard I am typing on. I trust my reason before my senses, and my reason SHOUTS at me that there is an intrinsic value, that Love is real.

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You're the only delusion one here dqualk, you've been told time and again atheism is not a worldview. When are you ever going to learn that it makes no claims about reality?

This is what I call a classic cop out. You have a different interpretation of atheist than I do. My definition of atheism is: those who do not believe in the reality of God, and instead believe in materialism only. There may be a more proper word, like am atheistic materialist or something, but for the sake of this forum I am using the word atheist in such a way. If it bothers you so much I will gladly began using a different term if you can give me a more appropriate one. Thanks.

I only repeat myself when the same baseless charge is levied against me.