My Escatological Vision

[dqualk]

You maintaining your beliefs and continually argueing they are fixed in reality in the face of all evidence and reason IS arrogance.

You have shown me no evidence that God does not exist. I AM NOT USING THIS AS AN ARGUEMENT AS TO WHY YOU SHOULD BELEIVE. I am only saying that you cannot say that I am irrational for believing in God when you have shown me no conclusivel, or strong for that matter, evidence as to His non-existance.

More PR for your chruch. Really man, you can keep that shit to yourself

You may call it PR but it is clearly written in our Catechism and in the Second Vatican Council documents. Further, there are only a few ways by which the Church represents herself as a whole, and that is through Ecumencial Councils and the Pope when speaking on issues of faith and morals, and the ordinary magestirum of Tradition, which is that which taught always and everywhere by Bishop. Therefore this would be a most appropriate way to talk about the Church as a whole. Now one can always find a bad particular Catholic, or you can find a good particular Catholic who makes a stupid mistake, but that would not represent the whole. So I am not saying that there are not arrogant ignorant and rude Catholics who are extremely exclusivest, only that the Church as a whole teaches what I have said.

What is it about what you believe did I get wrong? Please show me this strawman you claim I am building.

You said why should we allow people who believe in an evil overlord to pray at public schools. But Christians do not believe in an evil overlord. We believe in an all loving God, who loves all of creation. And who desires that all men should be saved.

Nevermind us protecting the child molesters in our ranks That's just "men's failures". Nothing important really, nothing to see here, move along. I don't give a flying fuck what christ teaches if his representatives here are molesting little children and he, if he be truely a 'God', stands by and does nothing to prevent it. If he be truely a God and continues in his silence and allows the guilty to be 'covered up' AND allowing the one suspected of covering up such incidents to be elected as the leader of his representatives.

Please remove your blinders and rose colored glasses and take a look at your church again.

I never said nevermind those evil bastards. Shame on them and they have truly scandalized the Church, and I don't blame you for being angry at the Church. I only ask that you overcome your emotions and be reasonable. Once you do this you will see that the Church's Canon Law and the Church's teaching on the subject are both good with regards to child molestation. That is the Church teaches that molestation and cover ups are grave evils and the Canon Law says that such individuals are to be immidiately reported to the secular authorities and they are to be defrocked. So ratioanlly you have to conclude that the Church's teachings are good in this regard, but that some individuals in the Church are stupid despite the teachings of the Church and her laws. In the same way there are child molesting atheists, yet I do not claim that all atheists are molesters and I am not angry at all atheists.

We are all represenatives of God in a sense, as we are all children of God and bear His image. What you are hitting at is truly the most difficult part of an omnipotent and omnibenevelont God and that is the problem of evil. I don't expect you to be convinced by our arguments but they make enough sense to me that I am able to hold on to my faith. My favorite answer to problem of evil is the one Leibniz provides, often times called the best possible of all worlds, and it is sometimes called the soul building theodicy.

With that said I will give a very simple explanation for why God allows His represenativers, that is His children which are all men (and women), and that is the gift of free will which was necessary for men to achieve a greater good. Leibniz has a much better explanation, that is far more in depth. I do not expect you to "convert" on account of it as it is a most difficult problem, and one that is no easily solved.

Sounds preachy. No need for the sunday school lesson

I do not intend to be preachy, I am only answering you in the best way I know how, which is with what Christ and the Church ACTUALLY teaches, as opposed to what idiots do to scandalize the Church (when I say idiots I'm mostly, in this case, talking about those stupid priests and bishops who did such evil acts).

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And that equates to atheists think they are the only intelligent ration people on earth? How does "I refuse to respect religious beliefs or the people that hold them" equal "You think you are the only intelligent people on earth"? It doesn't.

My bad, I just assumed that if you don't respect Theists or their beliefs it is because you thought they were foolish. I shall reword it, you think you and your tiny bunch of atheists are the only people who deserve respect on this earth.