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Atheist Forums › Community › Religion › Christianity v
The Problem of Good

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The Problem of Good
orangebox21 Offline
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Religious Views: Christian
Posts: 419
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#60
RE: The Problem of Good
December 30, 2015 at 2:40 pm
(December 29, 2015 at 2:54 am)robvalue Wrote:
(December 28, 2015 at 9:14 pm)Evie Wrote: I knew someone who said the words "free" and "will" put together are simply an oxymoron.

Hah! I like it. "Free" is certainly a bad start. The laws of nature reduce my options to virtually nil, out of all the choices I would like to make, before I even get started. Then my past shapes me, probably entirely, and events occur which I am continually reacting to.

I think the concept is a non-starter, and we should just stick to the verifiable science. More and more, it feels like the word "soul", an attempt to make ourselves out to be more than we are.
You mean we should just stick to whatever deterministic processes have led us to believe right?  After all, the conclusion "we should just stick to the verifiable science" is predetermined.  And if I believe in God, then that was predetermined as well.  How do you reconcile the glaring inconsistency:  The same naturalistic processes that led me to conclude that God exists have led you to conclude that he doesn't?    
(December 29, 2015 at 2:54 am)robvalue Wrote: I'd like to address the following flawed argument I've heard so many times:

"If there is no free well, then we shouldn't punish people for their action."

This isn't just incorrect, it's malformed. If there is no free will, then the word "should" becomes meaningless. The above falls into the trap of thinking along the lines of an agent with free will, standing in judgement of an agent without it.
Just the opposite.  An agent with free will standing in judgment of an agent without it would be represented by a person having no free will and being punished for his/her choices.  It would be as absurd as a person with free will punishing hydrochloric acid when it reacts with sodium hydroxide.  The hydrochloric acid is governed by deterministic naturalistic processes and cannot [when in contact with sodium hydroxide] act any other way than to change it's molecular structure into sodium chloride.  In the same way, you can't stand in any kind of moral judgment over someone's actions, after all he/she is limited to acting in a predetermined manner when interacting with the environment around him/her.

If it could be proven beyond doubt that God exists...
and that He is the one spoken of in the Bible...
would you repent of your sins and place your faith in Jesus Christ?



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Atheist Forums › Community › Religion › Christianity v
The Problem of Good

Messages In This Thread
The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - December 7, 2015 at 9:04 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by bennyboy - December 7, 2015 at 9:24 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by Lek - December 7, 2015 at 1:38 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by Mister Agenda - December 7, 2015 at 1:55 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by Lek - December 7, 2015 at 2:09 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by Whateverist - December 19, 2015 at 1:40 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by orangebox21 - December 19, 2015 at 8:00 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by Lemonvariable72 - January 9, 2016 at 6:25 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by Cecelia - January 17, 2016 at 9:53 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by Lek - January 17, 2016 at 10:53 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by Wyrd of Gawd - January 18, 2016 at 12:20 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by dyresand - January 18, 2016 at 12:55 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by Lek - January 18, 2016 at 2:14 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by Wyrd of Gawd - January 18, 2016 at 2:47 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by dyresand - January 18, 2016 at 10:00 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by Minimalist - December 7, 2015 at 1:46 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by Lek - December 7, 2015 at 1:51 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by dyresand - December 7, 2015 at 1:57 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by Lek - December 7, 2015 at 2:15 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by orangebox21 - December 7, 2015 at 2:54 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - December 7, 2015 at 3:26 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by orangebox21 - December 7, 2015 at 4:18 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - December 8, 2015 at 8:03 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by orangebox21 - December 8, 2015 at 4:29 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by Neo-Scholastic - December 8, 2015 at 5:46 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by orangebox21 - December 9, 2015 at 12:28 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - December 9, 2015 at 4:48 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by orangebox21 - December 10, 2015 at 11:44 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - December 10, 2015 at 4:01 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by orangebox21 - December 17, 2015 at 5:19 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - December 17, 2015 at 10:33 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by orangebox21 - December 19, 2015 at 12:02 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by Wyrd of Gawd - December 19, 2015 at 1:28 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - December 21, 2015 at 9:14 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by orangebox21 - December 21, 2015 at 5:09 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by Neo-Scholastic - December 7, 2015 at 6:47 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - December 8, 2015 at 8:04 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by Neo-Scholastic - December 8, 2015 at 9:52 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by Wyrd of Gawd - December 8, 2015 at 4:10 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - December 8, 2015 at 10:42 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by Edwardo Piet - December 9, 2015 at 1:03 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by athrock - December 9, 2015 at 1:59 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - December 9, 2015 at 4:51 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by Edwardo Piet - December 10, 2015 at 11:52 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by athrock - December 10, 2015 at 6:14 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by Edwardo Piet - December 10, 2015 at 7:39 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by athrock - December 11, 2015 at 8:34 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by Edwardo Piet - December 11, 2015 at 5:42 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by The Grand Nudger - December 11, 2015 at 5:48 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - December 22, 2015 at 10:13 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by orangebox21 - December 22, 2015 at 4:59 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - December 23, 2015 at 2:34 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by orangebox21 - December 23, 2015 at 4:06 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - December 23, 2015 at 4:35 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by orangebox21 - December 28, 2015 at 4:50 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - January 1, 2016 at 11:27 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by robvalue - December 28, 2015 at 4:58 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by orangebox21 - December 28, 2015 at 5:36 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by Edwardo Piet - December 28, 2015 at 6:04 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by Brian37 - December 28, 2015 at 6:01 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by robvalue - December 28, 2015 at 6:08 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by Edwardo Piet - December 28, 2015 at 9:14 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by robvalue - December 29, 2015 at 2:54 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by orangebox21 - December 30, 2015 at 2:40 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by Brian37 - December 28, 2015 at 9:16 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by Wyrd of Gawd - December 29, 2015 at 12:38 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by Brian37 - December 29, 2015 at 8:52 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by Neo-Scholastic - December 29, 2015 at 12:41 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by The Grand Nudger - December 29, 2015 at 2:42 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by The Grand Nudger - December 30, 2015 at 6:16 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by orangebox21 - December 30, 2015 at 7:28 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by dyresand - January 1, 2016 at 12:15 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by orangebox21 - January 5, 2016 at 11:54 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - January 7, 2016 at 1:32 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by orangebox21 - January 7, 2016 at 4:51 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by Pat Mustard - January 8, 2016 at 4:07 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - January 8, 2016 at 1:36 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by Pat Mustard - January 7, 2016 at 3:54 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by Esquilax - January 7, 2016 at 5:02 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by Wyrd of Gawd - January 1, 2016 at 4:50 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by dyresand - January 1, 2016 at 8:58 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by Edwardo Piet - January 5, 2016 at 12:38 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by The Grand Nudger - December 30, 2015 at 7:33 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by orangebox21 - December 30, 2015 at 9:11 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by robvalue - December 30, 2015 at 7:42 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by The Grand Nudger - December 30, 2015 at 9:39 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by orangebox21 - December 31, 2015 at 11:39 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by Marcus Felix - January 4, 2016 at 7:44 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - January 5, 2016 at 8:19 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by robvalue - January 5, 2016 at 2:11 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by Wyrd of Gawd - January 5, 2016 at 8:10 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by Edwardo Piet - January 5, 2016 at 2:16 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by robvalue - January 5, 2016 at 2:24 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by robvalue - January 5, 2016 at 9:22 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by robvalue - January 6, 2016 at 2:26 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by The Grand Nudger - January 7, 2016 at 5:00 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by robvalue - January 8, 2016 at 4:13 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by Judashpeters - January 8, 2016 at 2:10 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by orangebox21 - January 9, 2016 at 5:17 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - January 12, 2016 at 9:35 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by orangebox21 - January 15, 2016 at 1:21 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by dyresand - January 15, 2016 at 1:27 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - January 15, 2016 at 1:50 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by orangebox21 - January 15, 2016 at 4:05 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - January 16, 2016 at 9:34 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by orangebox21 - January 16, 2016 at 10:23 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - January 17, 2016 at 10:58 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by orangebox21 - January 19, 2016 at 9:19 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - January 19, 2016 at 2:27 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by orangebox21 - January 19, 2016 at 4:43 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - January 19, 2016 at 11:42 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by orangebox21 - January 20, 2016 at 9:57 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - January 20, 2016 at 3:39 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by dyresand - January 21, 2016 at 5:27 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by Wyrd of Gawd - January 20, 2016 at 2:06 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by The Grand Nudger - January 9, 2016 at 6:09 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by dyresand - January 12, 2016 at 11:19 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by Pat Mustard - January 13, 2016 at 10:07 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by The Grand Nudger - January 17, 2016 at 11:37 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by dyresand - January 18, 2016 at 12:54 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by The Grand Nudger - January 18, 2016 at 12:56 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by dyresand - January 18, 2016 at 12:59 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by ApeNotKillApe - January 19, 2016 at 5:02 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by robvalue - January 20, 2016 at 2:17 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by ApeNotKillApe - January 20, 2016 at 2:33 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by robvalue - January 20, 2016 at 3:41 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by orangebox21 - January 22, 2016 at 9:24 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - January 22, 2016 at 12:13 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - January 22, 2016 at 12:10 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by orangebox21 - January 22, 2016 at 5:27 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - January 23, 2016 at 10:50 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by orangebox21 - January 24, 2016 at 2:33 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - January 25, 2016 at 11:52 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by orangebox21 - January 25, 2016 at 5:22 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - January 26, 2016 at 8:53 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by orangebox21 - January 26, 2016 at 5:19 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - January 27, 2016 at 4:48 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by orangebox21 - January 27, 2016 at 5:41 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - January 28, 2016 at 8:42 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - January 26, 2016 at 4:27 pm
RE: The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - January 25, 2016 at 11:57 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by orangebox21 - January 28, 2016 at 11:35 am
RE: The Problem of Good - by RobbyPants - January 28, 2016 at 3:39 pm

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