RE: Musings about omnipotence and perfection.
January 30, 2011 at 5:14 pm
(This post was last modified: January 30, 2011 at 5:16 pm by Welsh cake.)
(January 30, 2011 at 8:40 am)DoubtVsFaith Wrote:It's not obvious. I know you're being very reasonable and trying to redefine the word into something more sensible, but this is bigger underlying problem with labels such 'omnipotence' and 'supernatural', in everyday application they're meaningless words.(January 30, 2011 at 5:48 am)Welsh cake Wrote: No, and I don't care that you're emphasising it to prevent a reponse either, to say that one of God's characteristics is omnipotence (in Latin: Omni Potens) is to say he has unlimited power, the ability to perform and accomplish tasks without restriction instantaneously and infinitely over.Omnipotence obviously must be within the realm of logical possibility because everything must be within the realm of logical possibility.
Furthermore, atemporality is impossible because for something atemporal to ever exist contradicts its atemporality. Nothing can exist before or after the existence of time because the concepts of 'before' and 'after' imply time, and if it exists at the same time as time then it isn't beyond it.
God can't contradict logic nor can he exist 'before' or 'after' time so in that sense he can't be atemporal or omnipotent in the sense that he can't have impossible kinds of atemporality or omnipotence. Oh dear(!) He can't do the impossible(!!). Nothing can by definition!
...He can't be beyond logic or time itself but logic and time can both be part of his supreme essence.
The current accepted definition of omnipotent is "infinite power". That's it. We know this will contradict itself through simple thought experiments but we can't simply rationalise it after this by adding onto the label's meaning "limitless and boundless power... that is limited and within the bounds of logic", because that's not what omnipotence actually means.
You can talk to the majority of theists right now and they will argue a deity with omnipotence has the ability to do whatever it intends to, it made the reality in question; it can do anything with it, manipulate time and space, even the logically impossible.
Quote:I'm starting to suspect Watson thinks the universe IS God. Okay, fine, why not just call it the "universe" then? Why seek to add the extra baggage to the word?(January 23, 2011 at 4:09 am)Watson Wrote: Miraculous, supernatural, spiritual, and 'Godly' are not anywhere close to the description of omnipotence, though.Omnipotence is a property given to God though. So I'm saying that if omnipotence is identical to logic then how do you make the leap from it merely being omnipotence to being part of the essence of or a property of a supernatural creator of the universe?
