Seeing red

[bennyboy]

I have an addendum, "but I know not -what- I am".

Yes.

 But that's an aside.   Do you understand why your claim that idealism subsumes materialism is problematic now?  You managed to quote me, respond to me, and not comment at all.  I'll repeat;

"This stuff is insufficient to explain "x", and idealism works just like it."

If you take the universe as brute fact, you have to explain mind, but cannot. If you take idealism as brute fact, you do not really need to make a special explanation for the physical universe: it is a collection of ideas. So no, the advantage of Idealism isn't so much that you can explain, but that there is no logical conflict which NEEDS to be explianed.

Then how have you determined -me- to be conscious?  

Only a conscious entity could argue in such annoying ways!

Why is "physical" even in this response?  Their mannerisms.  Full stop.  That seems to be how you've determined that I am conscious.

Not really. I extend the concept of self to those who seem similar to me. If I know someone has a CPU in their head, then that sense of similarity will be out the window. It could be possible that I could meet an android, and believe it to be human, and accept that it has a mind, and then have a philosophical crisis when it skins its face and I'm staring at Valentine.

Wanna know my position, on that?  I think that regardless of whether or not a machine could have a mind, a consciousness... it would have a human mind or consciousness.  I think that it may be convincing, but not convincingly human.  I;m able to pick up tiny little differences in other humans that let me know they may be a little "less than human" as it were......pretty sure a machine couldn't pull off an act any more convincingly.  Basically, I'm guessing that a native speaker of an awfully specific and quirky local dialect as "human" is going to be able to recognize an out of towner...even if they have plenty of occasion to comment upon how great his accent and inflection have become since learning our language.  Perhaps we agree here, if nowhere else?

That's one of the beauties of the blind in the test...for ai... we can't know those details that might give it away obviously.  Removes our bias.

The problem with that is obvious-- that not having a sufficient understanding of what mind is, where it is, or why it exists, you might be convincing yourself that a machine is conscious (by which I mean it subjectively experiences qualia) when in fact it does not.

(also, get rekt noob i'm in all the bushes, you can't know that I'm not!  You gonna lol after work?)

shrooms everywhere, huh? Yeah, I will, but remember my time zone.