Seeing red

[bennyboy]

Yes, QM is the second mindfuck The one I remember most is the black box with a mirror inside and with slits for entry and exit of a photon... fire it in, it reflects off the mirror and comes out the other slit. But then take away the mirror and do the same thing and sometimes it still comes out, with at least the book I was reading suggesting that it takes any path, even if it was like spaghetti junction. So what with photons that can take any path through space, and particles popping up and disappearing all over the place etc it is very interesting and very paradoxical. I do find what you're saying here compelling, and this, more than any other argument, makes me wonder about idealism.

Yep. Rhythm will pull out his most modern definition of materialism, and insist it's all stuff. But single particles that magically take multiple paths, that cannot be mapped onto 3d space, that cannot be said to have a non-zero volume in any precise sense, are pretty seriously abusing the term "material."

I have the feeling if reality is found to be billions of magic fairies dancing on the heads of pins, the materialists will say, "When MODERN scientists talk about material, they are of course talking about magic fairies. Therefore, materialism is right."