(January 19, 2016 at 4:43 pm)orangebox21 Wrote:(January 19, 2016 at 2:27 pm)RobbyPants Wrote: Are you saying that God isn't all powerful?There's a yes and a no to that. God is limited to act in a manner consistent within His nature. So God can't sin, nor does He tempt anyone, nor could He do something that is logically incoherent. Apart from that God is all powerful.
Apart from that being pretty ad hoc, there's actually no reason to believe that's the case. If I tell you it is not in my nature to lie and that I cannot lie... is the only logical conclusion you can draw from that that I must be telling the truth?
(January 19, 2016 at 4:43 pm)orangebox21 Wrote:(January 19, 2016 at 2:27 pm)RobbyPants Wrote: Basically the existence of heaven and hell at all, plus suffering and evil in this world. The notion of infinite consequences for finite (and only partially informed) decisions.I don't want to get too off track here but I'll mention two things here. First, the punishment is established by the law giver, not the law breaker. Secondly, how do you know that sinning against God ends at death? Some people have openly admitted that even if the Christian God proved Himself to them, they still wouldn't worship Him. Why assume this isn't the attitude of the unrepentant sinner even after death?
Yes... and there's still no reason to assume that sin is necessary, at all. If sin isn't necessary, neither is the punishment. If God can do anything but sin or tempt people, there's no reason to believe that his "plan" requires divine law/sin.
(January 19, 2016 at 4:43 pm)orangebox21 Wrote:(January 19, 2016 at 2:27 pm)RobbyPants Wrote: * The concept isn't actually Biblical, but everyone who isn't a Calvinist seems to at least imply this is the case. And even if Almighty God makes a decision for each and every child, if he were to send even one to hell, you'd be worshiping a capricious jerk.Just out of curiosity, would your opinion change if the child was going to grow up to be a warmonger unlike the world has ever seen? What about a serial killer who would kill 20 people? 15? 10? 5000? What about someone who would grow up to reinstitute the worship of Molech (throwing infants into a fire)?
If the child hasn't done it yet, then why should God punish it with hell? I thought the whole point of the free will defense is that we need to be able to make choices, and that's what justifies hell. If the kid hasn't made the decision yet, on what basis is God punishing it? I mean, yes, God is supposed to be able to see the future, but now we're getting into hard determinism.
