Epicurus riddle.

[Jenny A]

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I've never really understood what it means to be a slave to sin.

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We all have sin we tend to violate more than others. try to stop sinning. The reason you can't is because you are a slave to it. you must yield to your desire to sin.
No one is without sin. if they believe themselves to be without sin they have deluded themselves. We ALL Sin all the time.
 Biblically, sin is transgression against god's laws.

I don't pay any attention to god's laws at all.  No god, no laws of god.  It's fairly simple. I do pay attention to what I consider to be moral and immoral.  I haven't found much problem avoided seriously hurting anyone and I'm not much concerned with minor injuries.  I am indifferent to the large set of things you call sin.

 So other than following them, how could anyone be a slave to god's laws.

The law is not the goal. In the Roman's study I did a while back we learn that the Law only has one purpose, and that is to show everyone Is a Sinner. To be a 'slave to God' means is to allow Jesus to 'buy' your sin debt with his spilt blood.

Allowing someone to purchase something for you can hardly be called slavery by any ordinary definition of the term.

This is the only real 'choice' we are given. to chose to be remain a slave to sin or to be bought by Christ. To remain a slave to sin means we all owe a death. a Spiritual death and a Physical death. Christ paid both and offers us eternal life in exchange for our debt.

Stated that way it's just coercion.  Do something physically impossible, or believe in me and love.  Otherwise I kill you.  --No thanks.

 

But of course as defined by Jesus, the abscence of sin is impossible as it would involve not only giving away everything you have, but not ever having any bad thoughts either, including harmless natural ones like lust.

That's the point of Jesus expanding the law to include even sinful thoughts. So that all would understand they were [not] without sin.

I took the liberty of adding the "not" I think you intended.  

What you are really saying is Jesus came to make it impossible to follow the law.  Is that really what you mean?  Do you realize what an ugly idea that is?

 Frankly, given his failure to honor his mother and father,

How did Jesus' teaching the teachers of the temple for 3 days bring shame on his father and mother?

I didn't say that:

"47Someone said to Him, "Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You." 48But Jesus answered the one who was telling Him and said, "Who is My mother and who are My brothers?" 49And stretching out His hand toward His disciples, He said, "Behold My mother and My brothers!…"  Mathew 12:48

questioning god at Gesthsemone,

Where in the law says we are not allowed to ask God questions?
1Thess 5:21 says question ALL Things and hold on to what is Good. This means not only question the questionable but we are also to question the foundational.[/Quote]

He wasn't asking god questions at Gethsemone.  He was asking god to change his will. "Take this cup away."  In other words, a thought crime.  

and authorizing the theft of both a donkey and an ass(or was it a colt?),

I must have missed that one. If your talking about the donkey he rode into Jersulem on, how was that stealing? was it stealing when Jesus told one of his disciples to pay the temple tax with a gold coin they found in the mouth of a fish?
Is it not possible for you to conceive that the God who call creation into existence could not have put the tax money needed in the mouth of a fish or leave a donkey tied up??? I could do both of these things and I'm not God. What makes these things Jesus', is the fact he knew where and when these things would be left for Him.
The donkey like the tax money was prepared for him/his use.

"21 As they approached Jerusalem and came to Bethphage on the Mount of Olives, Jesus sent two disciples, 2 saying to them, “Go to the village ahead of you, and at once you will find a donkey tied there, with her colt by her. Untie them and bring them to me. 3 If anyone says anything to you, say that the Lord needs them, and he will send them right away.”  Mathew 21:1=-

Why would anyone say anything to them, if that colt and donkey did not belong to someone else?  He told the disciples to steal and then made use of the stolen goods.


 

"good" being defined by popular morality is meaningless. for example Oscar Shiendler was a "Good Nazi" Now if you judge the man in light of his peers and fellow war propheteers he was a hero, but if you were to judge his life against even the morality of today he was a monster.
He worked train loads of slaves to Death.
This includes women and children.
The people in his care lived in death camp environments, they starved, their medical needs were not met, yet he profited/millions from this work.
Not to mention he 'skimmed young ladies off the top.'

Take away his name and what he did in the end to 'redeem himself' and apply these deeds to a single person, and use your best 'moral judgment' and evaluate these deeds as they stand on their own. Now ask yourself is a man who were to do these things hero by your understanding of what is 'moral?'

No of course not. It is not until you put these deeds in context of his specific story does he become a hero. Why does that make a difference? Because 'we' put a false grade on sin. we believe some sins are worse than others. and if we stay on the lighter end of the spectrum we are 'good people.'

but again look at Oscar's list of 'immorality.' The fact that we can label him a hero in light of all of his misdeeds points to how perverse his society's time and morals of that people were, because his list was on the light side of what his peers were doing, was capped by a simple gesture of humanity made him a hero. It is only from a third person perspective can we truly see how far our 'morality' has shifted from any standard of good.

Or did you think in that time the Nazis saw themselves and what they were doing as immoral? Do you think members of ISIS see themselves as 'Immoral"? what about the guys who flew into the world trade center did they see themselves as 'immoral?'

Without God's law how is it you are any different? How would you see yourself as 'immoral' if like the people of ISIS, the Nazis, and the Taliban you grew up in a society where everything they do is moral (no matter how crazy it would seem to other societies?) You only see yourself as 'moral' because your society dictates morality for you, and you stay with in those bounds.

I'm asking you and people like you what if you grew up in one of the soceities this society defines as 'evil/immoral'? With Your pattern (without God/Without the bible) is to simply follow what society sets fourth as 'morality.' So how could you be 'moral' as this society defines it IF you did not grow up here in this society? Or would you be blowing yourself up at the first sign of westerns? Marching Jews into death camps? Cutting off heads of 'immoral people' if the pop morality you grew up with said that was ok?

This kind of thinking illustrates the danger of thinking that all moral infractions are equal.  Shiendler was recognized by the Jews as a hero.  Surely, those in his care have some right to an opinion on the matter.  Shiendler saved them from a greater evil by committing a lessor one.  He did some at some personal risk. And he did so against the laws and customs of the Nazis. You see context very much matters.

I think the devil's greatest victory was to sell you guys on 'morality' and the distain you have for all slavery.
When in reality not all slavery is evil. what makes slavery evil is the absolute power unchecked/unregulated slavery gives to evil men. with such power comes complete corruption, once such complete corruption is overcome any aspect of slavery without thought or regard is automatically given over to the stereotype of pure evil without forethought.

In the bible Slavery trades work for honor, lands, commodities, the right to marry into a great or strong family.. On some level this is what God is asking us for. the humility, the honesty to look at ourselves critically, and a heart contrite enough to follow through a superficial process of redemption.. After all, if we are not commanded to repent and live a sin free life, what is the actual cost to us? aside from humility and a little honesty when looking at ourselves... Nothing! and that all goes back to "Salvation is a gift from God so that no man can boast!"
What would one boast about?? His 'morality' of course!

Hebrew slavery looks pretty corrupt to me and that the Bible causes you not to think so is a sign that the Bible is an evil book.  The power to beat a man so badly that he dies of his wounds three days later, is hardly lack of control.