Absurdism

[reverendjeremiah]

I would think this is an example of letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. The fact that political change (or conservation) is difficult does not mean it is not worth the effort -- unless you embrace absurdism to the point that getting shipped off to the gulag doesn't matter to you. I think most of us would rank living under Obama, GW Bush, Hitler or Stalin in a definite order; some political circumstances are definitely preferable to others, if only from a personal comfort standpoint.

Remember, this is merely a base philosophy that others can stack on. I also support liberalism. It is very easy to stack anarchy on top of absurdism as well. In the matter of being shipped off to the Gulag, a typical absurdist hero would not ball his fist up and shake it at the Cosmos for being "unfair", nor would he commit suicide in that situation. From there it all depends on what the absurdists OTHER philosphies are that he holds that are not compromising to his acknowlegdement that there is probably no inherent meaning in the cosmos. I am against Gulags because they are harsh treatments of citizens upon their fellow citizens. At the same time what happens happens, and many times there is nothing you can do about it. remember, absurdism does NOT say that you should give up.

Regardless, per absurdism in particular, I can't help but suspect that absurdism as stated is somewhat self-contradictory. I don't have a complete handle on the question, but it seems that you are making a value judgment about value judgments in general -- namely that they are meaningless; if so, then your observation itself falls prey to the same objection it is making about other value systems. There is a philosophical position that displays the same quixotic nature, unfortunately I'm coming up empty at the moment. I suppose, if I think of it....

Of course there is a contradiction. The contradiction is the human mind itself when it comes into contact with a cold, inhuman mechanical universe. I am not saying that value judgements are meaningless. I am saying that all value judgements are PROBABLY meaningless. Who knows, maybe one day someone WILL find some inherent meaning in the universe that will convince all of mankind. Until then we bicker about EVERYTHING large and small. The only exception to this is the knowledge of the bare basic mechanics of the universe (logic) which can be either accepted or you can commit intellectual suicide. Human intent is where this posible contradiction begins, and thus absurdity results.

Regarding your indifference to gods and the afterlife, I recently asked theists in a theist oriented forum whether the absence of an afterlife, provably so, would change the way they live this life. The question was turned around on me, would I change if an afterlife was proven? I can't think that I could avoid changing -- the cost is simply too high. I think it would be profoundly irrational not to do so. And I think the same motivations which prompt one to leave a burning building, exit a tub of scalding hot water or remove one's hand from a hot stove would apply. In the case of an eternity of suffering, even more so. Perhaps I'm just morally weak. Perhaps, but I think there's more involved.

I would not change my position in that situation. An absurdist, in the face of proof that a god and afterlife exists, would admit that there is proof that an afterlife and god exists, but would then ask "what is the inherent meaning for it?" To be tortured for all eternity in fire for not worshipping a god? Wether hell exists in reality or not it is STILL absurd. To me, it doesnt matter wether a god exists or not. If a god created humanity in this condition withinin the universe then that god would be the greatest absurdity. A god who allows many religions to exist, but only a single "correct" religion? Absurd! Wether proof comes up for one religion being right or not will not change the past nor will it change the reality that other false religions were "allowed" to exist. Same thing with politics. Any god who would have created humanity and allowed it to have so many differing governments would be the epitomy of absurdity.

In a sense, the question of absurdism reminds me of the question of why some people -- who lack a belief in a god -- identify themselves as atheist, while others having the same attitude towards gods either don't identify as atheist (wouldn't do so for reasons aside of stigma), or identify as agnostic. I have to wonder a) what the function of the label is (for you), and b) what the function of your absurdist beliefs serve. I guess the question could be summed up in asking whether you behave differently as a self-conscious absurdist, than you would if you didn't have this "idea" of the way things are. If you behave differently because of absurdism, then I would suggest that you aren't fully absurdist. I don't think, anyway.

Now this is a SERIOUS discussion of absurdity. Absurdity is usually best approached from a sense of humor. The contradiction of humanity is so overwhelming that many go into fits of laughter when confronted with it. George Carlin was a very popular absurdist. Most comedians use absurdity, both real and imaginary, as the punchlines of their jokes.

As far as "belief statement", I have no problem with people calling me an atheist, or an agnostic. Both of those terms I do not mind. I dont think they fit me 100%, but they come pretty close. To me I dont care if a god exists or not. I will not worship it regardless because it would be absurd. It would be the source of the absurdity, and therefore should be scoffed and mocked. I wouldnt mind people calling me a Discordian or a SubGenius as well. I have no problem with those titles as well. Absurdists embrace that idea that a deity is absurd and then sometimes create "religions" like The Church of the Subgenius, or Discordianism, etc. ..its not that they are really worshipping the deities. They are merely enforcing (from the absurdist view point) that any kind of god or goddess would be absurd, and they stress to prove it in their "religious" writtings of whatever god they make up. For all I know, an infinite amount of infinitely powerful deities exist and they fight each other constantly over things we humans consider trivial..like the placement of sand pebbles on the beach everytime the waves roll in..while we humans think we are special in their eyes, the deities couldnt care less about us...just the sand grain they have in their ward. THAT, is the absurdist approach on religion.

In terms of the overall question of absurdism, I discount it for myself in two ways. First, as a Taoist, I don't believe the universe is "indifferent" to our actions (either in terms of itself, nor in terms of the consequences for ourselves); in some sense, I'm not a "good" Taoist in that I depart in some substantial ways from what I see as paradigm Taoist behavior, and perhaps that has consequences for my values and behavior (if I were in the classic Taoist painting of The Vinegar Tasters, I would probably not be smiling). Second, I believe that evolution has hard-wired us such that we are not fundamentally indifferent to our existence. Whether we find the dictates of our biology meaningful in some larger sense, they are meaningful in a more immediate and local sense. This is not to say we shouldn't either encourage or discourage certain biological imperatives, but that our doing so ultimately reduces to satisfying one particular imperative or another; even ascetics deny themselves for "dirty" reasons. (I'm not going to launch off into questions of zen or wabi sabi, I've babbled enough -- especially for one who sees little contradiction in talking about the ineffable )

Ive been meaning to study Taoism more indepth. An absurdist would approach the idea of ancestor spirits and immortals as something to laugh at as absurd. They would point out the lack of "furniture spirits" of past furniture your ancestors owned, and ask why they were not being revered as well? How about those Dinosaur spirits? Dont see many religions popping up about those. Perhaps we should invent one? Biologically speaking its all cut and dry as long as it is mechanical in terms, but once you start suggesting things like "My penis has a Muladhara chakra", then the Absurdists will laugh, and ask what is the meaning for it. They will more than likely mock the concept, and invent newer concepts to add onto it showing the absurdity of such beliefs. Example: "The only thing I can see good coming out of Zen is that the person will be well rested..and at least when he is meditating he isnt hurting anyone." or "The only thing baptism is missing is a bar of soap." or "Christian communion is great, especially with some cheese on it."