Why More Americans Want to Own Guns

[Thumpalumpacus]

Well, that didn't really answer my question. We both know that a 30-30 isn't purchased for self-defense, that shotguns often aren't and so on.

The point was that PIDOOMA numbers aren't worth much in a discussion.

Actually, the discussion isn't worth much.

... and yet here you are.

Also, the DGU stats I mentioned earlier:

According to the NCVS, looking at the total number of self-protective behaviors undertaken by victims of both attempted and completed violent crime for the five year period 2007 through 2011, in only 0.8 percent of these instances had the intended victim in resistance to a criminal “threatened or attacked with a firearm.” As detailed in the chart on the next page, for the five-year period 2007 through 2011, the NCVS estimates that there were 29,618,300 victims of attempted or completed violent crime. During this same five-year period, only 235,700 of the self-protective behaviors involved a firearm. Of this number, it is not known what type of firearm was used or whether it was fired or not. The number may also include off-duty law enforcement officers who use their firearms in self-defense.

http://www.vpc.org/studies/justifiable15.pdf

So while in comparison to the overall crime rate the number of DGUs are small, they still average around 47,000 per year -- quite a bit higher than your back-of-envelope calculation assumed. It should be noted that that number far outweighs total gun deaths from all causes, including suicides, for each year.

But I have to wonder why you object to the numbers you supplied? I was generous with them.

No, as shown above, you were significantly short, and you avoided addressing altogether my point that your assumption that every gun sale is rationalized by self-defense is just that -- an assumption, and a fatuous one at that.

Well, that didn't really answer my question. We both know that a 30-30 isn't purchased for self-defense, that shotguns often aren't and so on.

The point was that PIDOOMA numbers aren't worth much in a discussion.

You need a 30-30 if you hunt big game. You'll never effectively take down a large buck, a wild boar (also a menacing threat to livestock and human safety), a moose, nor a bear with a little .22, and you may not get more than one shot.

You need a shotgun if you hunt game birds - period!

Why should civilians be restricted to owning a .22 rifle, which is dangerous for being useless and ineffective, when police officers are allowed to carry .44 or 9mm handguns? If you think we don't need them to stop an attacker, then neither do they.

Exactly my point. Not every single gun purchased is bought for self-defense, further diminishing the pertinence of 'Zilla's point.