(February 17, 2016 at 10:04 pm)bennyboy Wrote: I feel like we should probably have a new thread, because this discussion is mostly beyond religious influence now, but let me say this: I agree with Brian37 about excessive greed, exactly BECAUSE that seems to be people's religion. The belief is that money is God, and nothing else matters, and that is pretty sick.
Given this view, then let's get back to the OP, and ask about liberty. Does a very rich person have a moral obligation to pay more than he needs to? If he can talk someone into working for pennies a day, why shouldn't he? Isn't the blame on all the members of a society who allow themselves to be manipulated into a situation where they can't fight back?
Let's look at the US elections as an example. If it was clear that NOBODY would vote for a money-is-God capitalist, then I can guarantee that every politician in the US would be all about fairness. But then there's Trump. How can you have a population of fucking idiots like that, and then feel sorry when they get fucked time after time? Maybe they should stop bending over.
I agree that changes should be made. But isn't demonizing the powers that be really more about scape-goating than making change? People will engage in hours of typing to participate in a forum thread like this one. . . but they aren't willing to spend that same amount of time standing in front of the White House with a sign, or working in a soup kitchen, or volunteering in places that need help. Brian37, I've decided to make my little stamp on the world IN my company. I let employees go home early more often than not, I offer to pay for training courses if they want them, I pay for gym memberships, and I give them performance bonuses that are not stipulated in their contracts, just 'cuz. What, other than complaining on an internet forum, are you actually DOING to improve the inequalities you gripe about?
One more thing. Who's rich, and who isn't? I'm pretty sure that the regions where big companies outsource are poorer per capita than the American cities which they leave behind. If you are such a champion of fairness, doesn't that mean that ALL companies are obliged to relocate to the place where their wages will achieve the maximum possible good? Shouldn't little M'buku's family in Africa complain that you are trying to prevent business from sharing North American or European wealth by insisting those companies stay at home?
I'd also like to suggest that the wealthy should have other ways to win the game: public adoration for those who donate money to good causes, for example. I'd even be in favor of bought ranks. How much would a guy like Trump be paid to be called: Grand Vizier of the Lands of Las Vegas and Dominant Duke of New York City, and to make everyone call him that all the time? Make every who meets him bound by law to bow and say nice things about his hair or something, and start paying off that national debt.
That's it Benny, that first paragraph sums it up. My only problem is climate and attitude. I have been low wage all my life and still get help from my mom. But what I hate isn't our differences, what I hate is looking down on others. I really am happy for those who get to do what they want in life. But the truth is, for most, they are lucky if they can manage to pay their bills and keep food on the table, but in our current climate, even that is becoming harder for more. I am lucky because I have support, but most people don't. Most workers aren't out to overthrow government and create Cuba. The west is so far separated from closed markets like Stalin's Russia not even poor liberal voters want to become that.
Benny, there is also nothing wrong with charity, in and of itself. But again, big business does that for PR and tax breaks. The best charity is direct investment in workers. The less they have to worry about paying their bills, the less they will turn to government for help.
I had a job I loved for 7 years, the owners were awesome, gave me two raises without asking. But what I loved about them the most which made me want to lick the floor with my tongue to mop it, was that they treated me like a human and they didn't treat me like a tool or a number on a page. I never thought because of that I was free to do whatever I wanted. But having a pleasant work environment where even fights are more considered a stress issue, rather than a roll issue, and tomorrow is another day, it really goes a long way in feeling like you matter. And when people feel like they matter they want to stay there longer. And keeping employees longer reduces turnover rate which when higher causes your product to suffer.
Point is collectively, not just you, not just me, because we are just two people, that it still remains that a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link, so the better workers do, the better everyone does.
