(February 29, 2016 at 5:04 am)Nihilist Virus Wrote:(February 29, 2016 at 1:43 am)Godschild Wrote: You're wrong once again and at best you're trying to twist the words of God around to meet your predetermined argument. You should learn what the Bible says before trying to twist it into your words, God's word will not fail.
God's word will not fail?
2 Kings 8:26 versus 2 Chronicles 22:2.
Oh but you have to use the KJV or NKJV, because in the newer versions they artificially correct God's word.
Just so you will know and not make the same mistake in the future, the NKJV is one of the newest translations and as for the KJV it was translated during a time where they were not able to translate several of the Greek and Hebrew words. The newer translations have the advantage of our understanding of many of the words they couldn't translate and even some of those they did translate we have learned they have more meanings and some better than those used in the KJV. So you use the translations you want and I'll use the numerous ones I have including the KJV. By the way if you are looking for a Bible that is the closest to a literal translation try the NASV in a study Bible. Now that you have had a little Bible history I'll address your verses you posted.
2 Kings 8:26
2 Chronicles 22:2
The NIV one of my least favorite versions says the same thing about both versions, no difference.
GC Wrote:God did not kill the child, as I said He allowed the child to die. God did strike the child ill and He did not heal the child,
NV Wrote:Do you have any idea how moronic that sounds?
"Your Honor, I didn't kill my wife. I just poisoned her soup and allowed her to die lolz."
Do you realize how ignorant you are about God and His rights. First off, I do not own my wife (you must think a man owns a woman after they are married), I can't take her life, God's law and the law of the land both prohibit such an action.
God as creator of all people has the right to take the life He has given and in some instances He does, but most people die of accidents or natural causes. If God had not allowed a life it would not have been, so even your life is in His hands. This said, God takes what is His to start with when He decides to. I knew you would come back with this so I waited to address it only after you decided to show your ignorance of God, it's a learning moment as Drich would say.
GC Wrote:this was physical punishment not spiritual punishment, David and his child are both now with the Lord God. The passage from Deut. is about spiritual death and since God had forgiven David, there was no punishment for the sin with Bathsheba concerning the child's death.
NV Wrote:Deuteronomy 24:16 is about spiritual death. Yeah I saw you say that before. Uh, citation needed. Because as far as I know, the Old Testament does not even mention souls or spirits other than Sololomon saying that the spirit of man goes into the ground, just the same as that of an animal. Ecclesiastes 3:19.
Edit - there was the conjuring of Samuel's spirit. Forgot about that. Still though you have to provide evidence that the verse is describing a spiritual death and also you have to reconcile the conjuring of Samuel with Ecclesiastes 3:19.
I do not have to reconcile anything, I will explain what I know and if I do not know I'll say so.
2 Kings 2:11 Elijah was taken to heaven, this is definitely spiritual as Elijah had to cross from one realm to another.
Genesis 5:24 Enoch walked with God and lived 365 years then God took him away, Enoch also had to cross over from one realm to another making this a spiritual event.
One of these verses is before Moses, the other after, we have put spiritual events on both sides of Deut. 24.
Others
Job 32:8 But it is the spirit in a man, the breath of the Almighty, that gives him understanding.
Proverbs 20:27 The lamp of the LORD searches the spirit of man; it searches out his in most being.
Ecclesiastes 3:11 He (God) has made everything beautiful in time. He has already set eternity in the hearts of men; yet they can not fathom what God has done from beginning to end. The heart represents the soul or spirit and eternity can only be a spiritual thing.
Ecclesiastes 3:21 Who knows if the spirit of man rises upward and the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth?
Before you brought up the 3rd chapter of Ecclesiastes you should have read the first verse of chapter 3." There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under heaven."
The 19th verse you so proudly brought up is speaking of man and animal being made of the dust of the earth and breathing the same air. Yes we are arguing over the translation of one word in this chapter, the word translated either breath or spirit. In this case breath works better with the rest of scripture and even within the context of chapter 3, I'll show you in the next verse.
Ecclesiastes 12:7 and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.
Deut. 24:16 Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor the children put to death for the fathers; each is to die for his own sin. Read the verse carefully, then consider this, not all sin called for man to be put to death for certain sins as a matter of fact few did. Thus verse 19 speaks of the spiritual.
GC Wrote:No I'm not wrong, in verse 13 David tells Nathan he has sinned and Nathan tell David God has forgiven his sin, the sin is forgiven before the child becomes ill. Understand the sequence here, David's wives were given to another man because David took Uriah's wife and then murdered Uriah. David's son died because David dishonored God's name among the unrighteous.
NV Wrote:The sin was forgiven because the son paid the price of death, in direct contradiction to Deuteronomy 24:16.
Quit throwing around the same pitiful statement when I've shown you the sin was forgiven before the child became ill, I also showed you why the child died.
Please do not force me to call you stupid I really do not want to because I don't believe you are, but if that's what it takes to get your attention keep up what you said above.
Quote:
GC Wrote:How could God being above the law make Christ's death pointless,
NV Wrote:Because the point of Christ's death was that it was the only way to forgive sins...? Duh...?
The point of Christ's death was that all men could come to salvation through forgiveness of sin. Christ's death on the cross ended the continual sacrificing of animals. The death of an animal covered a limited number of sins, then another animal was sacrificed for the same person for more sin. God didn't consider animals of any kind perfect, man's fall effected every living thing, so none through their death cover all sin. So Christ was sent to live the perfect sinless life to cover all sin through His one and only death. So yes there was a point and purpose to the death and resurrection of Christ.
GC Wrote:you need to understand that Jesus was born and lived as a man He had no powers while on earth.
NV Wrote:Jesus had no powers while on earth? WTF? I must be the only person who is unable to walk on water, create fish and bread ex nihilo, heal the blind, leprous and paralyzed, and etcetera etcetera etcetera.
Again I expected this though I was hoping you would believe I was intelligent enough not to make a statement I didn't have an explanation for. Christ laid down His powers and Lordship in heaven to become a man capable of sinning, with those things in tow He would not have ever been tempted to sin. All of Christ's miracles were from the Father's powers, if you will remember when the woman with the bleeding disorders touched Jesus he said, He knew He had been touched because He felt power leave Him.
Why do you think Jesus told the Pharisees and others, " why want you believe the Father sent me do all these miracles not mean anything to you. Jesus also said, I do not do my will but the Fathers who sent me, I do what I see the Father doing. Jesus often referred to the Father as the source of power.
GC Wrote:Satan couldn't say that Jesus was able to be tempted to sin, Satan personally temped Jesus and Jesus used the word of God to turn Satan aside.
NV Wrote:OK... BTW who was there to write that down? Or did Jesus strut back into town and brag about fasting for 40 days & resisting temptation?
You agreed then you go ridiculing Jesus and the scriptures, to what, boost your ego? Jesus told His disciples before His ascension the Holy Spirit would remind them of the things that happened, ever wonder why, "Spirit inspired gospels". Yes, Jesus most likely told the disciples. Did you forget that the angels came to help Jesus after his 40 days in the wilderness. He wasn't able to to go back and tell everyone about what had taken place until He recovered, this too shows the humanity of Jesus.
GC Wrote:The laws I speak of are given to all mankind are you to lazy to read and find them, they are in both the OT and NT.
NV Wrote:If you aren't talking about the 613 laws of the Torah then you need to clarify WTF you are talking about. I've been more than patient with you. Now you're calling me lazy. If you're saying the law is NOT what is commonly known as the law, then YOU need to clarify what you are talking about.
You being patient with me, seems to me I'm the one being patient, I know these laws exist why don't you? Okay I'll give you the first one then you're on your own. Genesis 2:2 the Sabbath rest. Okay I'll give you one more, Genesis 2:24 for those who marry they shall be one flesh and this refers to one man and one woman, there can be no mistake about it, why, because they were the only people at the time.
GC Wrote:If you mean God is above the law because He can't sin then you are correct. God's nature is the law and God can't go against His nature so He can't sin.
NV Wrote:As far as the law he made with the Jews, he clearly violated the shit out of it.
Or are you going on again about this law that is not the Torah even though you won't clarify WTF it is?
He never violated any laws period, not the ones given to all mankind nor the Israelites, God is bound by His nature He can not sin, so it's impossible for Him to violate the laws. God is not bound by all the laws man is because He is the creator, but I'm guessing you can't see this either. Why do you believe this, simple, you believe God is a murderer because He wiped clean the earth in the flood, you can't see all those people died because they were sinful, even beyond repair. God promised that men would die for their sins if Adam and Eve ate from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. God doesn't murder, He justly punishes.
GC
