The Reasons why "Just Following Jesus" Doesn't work

[Redbeard The Pink]

Hey thanks for pointing out the lieing thing, I think I have been spelling that wrong for a long time.

Yeah, among other things.

I don't see how a list of atrocities are a proof against God.

I'm sure you don't, and you probably still won't after I explain.


They're a proof against your specific Gaud because they contradict the innate qualities that he is said to have according to the Bible and Christian doctrine. The Universe we observe and the character in the Bible are simply not consistent with an all-knowing, all-loving, all-powerful creator. If you remove all the passages that say "God is good" and look at just his actions, it becomes clear that the god of the Bible is a vindictive, megalomaniacal, amoral monster.

Actually, let me say it this way. I don't see how you can judge God with integrity so therefore I take your statement about God being evil as erroneous.

I can judge the gods because I'm a human, and humans created all the gods. They're fictional characters, and I am perfectly within rights and reason to treat them as such and to criticize their failings as characters.

Why I make that statement is because your standard for right and wrong is inconsistent.  You say that morals are subjective so there is nothing that is firm and unmoving to base your judgements, today America insists that ____  is wrong but in a couple of months it may not be. At the core your standard for morals are only arbitrary and at the whim of what people deem as correct whether they are consistent with reality or not.

If having an arbitrary standard for morality means that a person can't make judgements about right and wrong, then you can't do that, either. If Gaud's standard for morality is based solely on his own say-so, then Gaud's morality is arbitrary.


Furthermore, Gaud's morality is inconsistent, mainly concerning killing other humans. Basically what you're telling me is that even the most atrocious action is acceptable as long as it falls into Gaud's plan, which means that your morality is arbitrary and inconsistent, which means that by your own logic you can't, with integrity, judge any statement I make as right or wrong.

As for 2. I do know what happened because I know the one who made it happen.

I had a feeling you were going to say something like that.


The problem with it is that you're misusing the word "know." If you want to claim you "know" something, you have to be able to somehow show that it's true. If you can't show it, you don't know it...you just believe it; if you believe without evidence, then you believe only on faith, and faith is the most intellectually dishonest position it's possible to hold.

God is trustworthy and nothing like us.  You are the one who is uncertain because you rely on humans to tell you what is real.

No, actually I rely on hard evidence from the real world. You're the one following a thing that was made up by humans.

Humans are flawed, self-seeking, finite, and do not know everything.

Which is exactly the reason we use science now instead of whatever we make up in your heads.

Scientist are not perfect humans so their findings can be flawed and misinterpreted to fit their own presuppositions.

And that is why the peer review process exists. Nothing makes it to the level of "Theory" on the say-so of one or two people. Everyone has to be able to do the same thing under the same conditions and get the same result for it to pass the tests of science.

Don't assume or put your trust in science because it can't save you.

From what, all that sexy, sexy wrath? I notice you glossed right over that, and I'm still waiting. How is the all-good- all-loving creator of the Universe going to horribly torture me for all time? I'd really like to know.

It has not proven a great deal of things, yet you will bet your eternal soul on it.

Actually, I'm going one step further and betting that I don't have a soul at all, and neither does anyone else. Your Bible hasn't proven anything at all, so why would you stake your belief on that?

So you have a double standard because I would say the same for your assertion that matter has always existed.

And again, I didn't assert that as the truth; I only offered it as a possible explanation. Even so, the evidence to support the fact that matter/energy can't be created or destroyed is also evidence that matter/energy could be eternal, so even then I still have more evidence than you do.

Don't play with your eternal soul because you want to be right. If your world view has to skirt past the "why", you don't have assurance of consistency, or have a firm standard for morals; then your world view is weak, and will cause destruction in your life.

Actually, it's done quite the opposite. My life is much better and more fulfilled now that I'm not trying to please an imaginary voice in my head or a character from a story book. My faith, on the other hand, has destroyed a lot of things for me over the years, namely some relationships I would have opted not to lose but didn't have the choice because I was an intolerable, religious asshole.