Geoengineering ...

[theVOID]

A basic morall framework that is simple to see & even easier to understand.

Want to present it? Then we can see if it's sound and valid. It seems like you're just using your intuitions though.

The harmony is also easy to see. It may not be so nice sometimes, but it is there.

There is some harmony, bees and flowers etc, there is also one hell of a lot of chaos, to say that it's only harmony is plainly false.

Over time, this maybe true, but for the present it is not. The Planet as a whole will live longer than any one species, but the species that live here at the present, rely upon one another, and a stable environment to survive

Again only true to an extent, we don't depend on Kittens to exist, Lions don't depend on parrots etc. We need not a stable environment but one that we can survive, stable or not. Stability helps long term, so does the ability to manipulate the environment, for a time we had both, so did Neanderthals, instability killed them, we got lucky, things are stable again for now, if things ever become unstable again hopefully we either get lucky or we are sufficiently able to manipulate the environment to suit.

All that matters in those situations is our survival, If our only option kills another species then so be it, I won't think twice.

Can anything survive without a heathy Ocean?

Fuck all can, but life is resilient and if some life can survive and reproduce then there is still the opportunity for natural selection. We're better off not getting to that point (pragmatically by preventing it from getting any worse but we might not be able to) and if that involves large scale manipulation of the environment then we'll do it.

This is extremly arrogant and immoral.

No it's factual

Kill all the cats on the planet, we can survive, kill all the marsupials and we can also survive. That is not to say we should do it, there is no reason to, and if it doesn't assist our survival there is little point in doing so, but it's neither arrogant or immoral to point out that we could get by fine without them.

I am saying you are serperated from the environment because of the contemp you hold for it.

And that's just plain false, I'm of the opinion that we should try and sustain a stable environment as best we can, it's in our best interest to do so, my point was that if we are forced to do something drastic to prevent catastrophe and that is going to kill some species then i'll do it.

hmm, interesting. Maybe, maybe not.

Any environmental threat to our lives is just as likely to kill any other mammal that gets in it's way.

We are far outside the carrying capacity of the Planet. Therefore, well outside the natural boundries that are set for us.

No we aren't, the planet will be fine, some species may die. The only boundaries we are confined to are the ones that allow us to survive, that's a small portion of possible conditions.

You say long ago, humans have lived in harmony with the Planet for the vast majority of history. Only recently with the onset of the industrial age and modern medicine have we begun to push the limits.

Not true, we've struggled against the environment more often than not, deserts that can kill you from exhaustion during the day or freezing during the night, an ice age, floods, earthquakes, we nearly all got wiped out by the mount toba volcano.

The same things that are responsible for the vast majority of species that have exited now being extinct are the things we overcome to survive.

Our technology and medicine is beneficial to our survivial, not detrimental, without it we would stand fuck all of a chance of surviving long term, but wiht it we stand a chance.

We have reached a point in history, a point where we will change and adapt to a clean future, or we will suffer by our own hand.

We might suffer, we might be able to manipulate the environment. I agree being efficient is the first response, but things can rapidly get out of our control, all it would take is a natural heat cycle to accelerate our c02 caused warming and we're going to have to resort to the last resorts.