Transexuals

[Catholic_Lady]

We are still talking about trampling on one group in order to prevent crimes by a completely unrelated group that have not shown to be correlated to the absence of these laws.

I would like to see Catholic_Lady respond to this.

Will do, though I feel like I'll just be repeating myself.

Again, the concern with pervs taking advantage of a new law like this is only a smaller part of why I think we should draw the line at sex change. I feel like people are acting as though this is the one and only reason why I take take the stance I do. The reason I posted that story is because the first time I suggested something like this happening, the response from a lot of people was that this would never happen, and that no man would never dress as women to peep at them in bathrooms and lockerrooms. Well, yes they would. It's a real existing fetish similar to peeping tomery. And given a better opportunity for the pervs to do this may increase this sort of incident. We'd be taking that risk at the expense of women being violated by men in their own bathrooms and lockerrooms. And that's not fair to them/us.  

Nonetheless, the main problem I think with allowing anyone to use any restroom so long as they claim transgenderism is the fact that many women would not feel comfortable with people who are physical men going into women's bathrooms/lockerrooms, even if those people identify as women. And these women that would understandably feel uncomfortable have rights as well. It's not fair to tell them "well these people who are still physically male can all go into your bathrooms and lockerrooms while you're pooping and peeing and tending to wardrobe malfunctions and changing and showering, and too bad if you're not comfortable with it." That's why I keep saying we need 3rd bathrooms. That way no one feels uncomfortable. Not the transgender person, and not the women.  

I wrote this post below a couple days ago that summarizes my stance on this pretty well. I may have missed it but I don't think anyone has addressed the bolded part below. Where would you guys draw the line? Or should there not even be one? And should the standards be stricter for lockerrooms and changing rooms where people may often be in various states of undress? 

I think the most important argument is that there are plenty of women out there who would not feel comfortable with a physical male going into the women's bathroom/lockerroom while they are in there doing their thing. (notice I am not using the general term "transgender person" because I think this would be ok if they had a sex change. I am specifically referring to transgender folks who have not yet gone through the transition and are still physical males.) Personally, I wouldn't mind the bathroom scenario, but I would not like the lockerroom if I was in there changing or showering. I would feel uncomfortable with a physical male being present while I'm changing or showering in there as I used to do in high school and when I go to the Y for swimming. Nonetheless, I can understand and respect a woman not feeling comfortable with a physical male in the bathroom, either. Even though I personally would not have a problem with it, I'm not going to condemn or shame a woman who doesn't feel comfortable with it. And I know many of them are not.   

To be clear, I never said sexual assault though. I understand the chances of someone getting raped in a bathroom or lockerroom are almost non existent. I was thinking more along the lines of a person going in there to discretely "take a peek"... because they get off on that peeping tom type scenario. I would not want to take that sort of risk to a woman's privacy, especially in lockerrooms where many of them are in open states of undress. When it comes to that sort of thing, I think it is wise to err on the side of caution.  

Of course, we're going to get examples like people such as Cait Jenner who has done a lot of surgical/hormonal transformation but has not yet had a sex change. But on the other end of the spectrum we're going to get people who are still completely physically male and still look 100% like men, physically, and are just wearing a little lipstick and padded bra or something. Or perhaps, not even that if they are at the gym or at a pool or something. So I think there needs to be a line drawn somewhere. 

*Should any person, even those who still look like men, be able to walk into a woman's bathroom/lockerroom while there are other women in there so long as they claim to identify as female? 

*Should it be limited to people who are at least dressed femininely even if no hormonal or surgical change has been made? And if so, who gets to decide what constitutes as looking feminine enough? Is just some long hair enough? Just some lipstick and panty hoes and padded bra? Do they need to be in full drag? What if they are at the gym or the pool?  

*Should there be at least some sort of hormonal/surgical change? If so, how much? Who decides?  

....That's why I personally think the best place to draw the line is at complete sex change. 

And again, this is not perfect. Because we're going to get people like Cait who has done a lot of change already but is not completed. But I don't think any of the above would be perfect because we're always going to get people with all different situations. To me, sex change seems like the most logical place to draw the line.

Ultimately I think the best solution to this is a private third bathroom. Someone mentioned their store only has one bathroom. Well, if it's one bathroom then I'm assuming it's unisex anyway, so no problem there. If it's a place that has one private male bathroom and one private female bathroom, I don't think that matters either since they are private, one person rooms. I think any place that can afford to make multiple stalled public bathrooms for men and for women can afford a 3rd private room. Even if that means making the others a little smaller to save space/costs. The well being of everyone involved should be the first priority.