What is Consciousness?

[Edward]

As for consciousness, I think that it is a life giving and form making force. Without a consciousness, there would be no form to the world as there would be no-one their to observe it. The world did not come into being till a conscious being observed it hence gave it form. In other words, the tree in the forest can not make a sound if there is no-one their as it has not fallen yet because no-one is their.

I think you and I are in complete agreement here. I'm not sure how the mechanics of consciousness works to form existence, but one day I think I might know.

I like that you say you are a Gnostic. I am very familiar with some of the Gnostic Gospels, especially Thomas, Nicodemus, and Judas. Everyone thinks the way the traditional Christians view Christ is the only way there ever was, and that's just not true. Not at all.

What is wrong with redheads? Be careful answering that :/

Nothing at all! I've just heard they get beat alot by step-parents.

And I'd suggest that's complete and utter rubbish ... there is absolutely no evidence beyond healthy imagination that consciousness resides anywhere but the brain.

Actually there is. The first is precognition. The second is the apparent willful action of protozoa, especially paramecium, which have no brain or central nervous system whatsoever. The third is the fact that in order to say, turn a doorknob, if consciousness is generated by the brain, all the information needed to make your body turn the knob would have to be contained in one neuron in your brain, and then you'd still be left with explaining how that one neuron got its stimulus--but that's another discussion. Then there is the fact that humans have a concept of infinity.

I will offer you the exact same challenge I offered Frodo ... predict something. Something beyond the normal ability of humans to make intelligent informed guesses and/or lucky guess. When you've done that and when objective observers have assessed it as being an accurate and correct prediction THEN come back and I will treat it seriously.

You don't have to treat my belief in my precognition anyway at all. Your opinion about it doesn't change the veracity of it one way or the other. That's the trouble with you atheists, you think the world owes you something.

That does it: I'm going back to a theistic stance. I'm going to stop calling God "Nature" and I'm going to stop saying humans exist to evolve the consciousness of nature when I really mean the human purpose is to be Christ.

It's not so much that I believe in God the way Christians do, because I don't. And I certainly don't believe Christians are right about the life and teachings of Jesus Christ, but atheists are just willful fools, it seems. They say, "Only what I can perceive with my senses is real." And avoid the larger issue of why something exists at all, or how it got there, because that's too hard to figure out.

So, I'm now a theist.

Good because you haven't convinced me that your worldview is anything other than some kind of god-substitute.

You're right. And I can't hide it. Since 1993, I have tried to find a way around my theism, but I can't. I have tried to be a Christian, but I can't. I have tried to be agnostic, but my mind won't shut up and let me live in peace with agnosticism. Now, I've tried on some atheist clothes, but they don't fit at all. A conscious nature = God. There's no way I can pretend it doesn't.

Sigh

.

Yea, yeah, yeah, you're so smart you have to tolerate the poor theists time and time again. Let me tell you something: you don't know half as much as you think you do. So, save your sighs for yourself.

If the universe itself were becoming conscious then my consciousness would be part of a greater whole ... it isn't, it is separate, distinct, apart; so no ... the universe shows absolutely no evidence of becoming aware.

Oh, really? Your consciousness is separate and distinct, is it? And yet earlier from your highhorse you yelled down to me that consciousness can only come from the mechanics of the brain. I guess you are God, then aren't you? I guess that's what you're trying to tell me. After all, if there is the universe, and then apart from that there is your consciousness, that would make you God, wouldn't it?