(April 29, 2016 at 6:09 pm)Shadow_Man Wrote:IATIA Wrote:Your god cannot see the future of free will. If your god can monitor and calculate every single wave/particle reaction/event, then your god will know what will happen, but then we are merely puppets of determinism.
I have no idea how God knows the future. He can certainly monitor and calculate every reaction/event if He chooses to. But what are you actually saying? You seem to be implying that we are puppets of determinism whether God has foreknowledge or not. What do you actually think? Are we robots or are we free?
Robots.
(April 29, 2016 at 6:09 pm)Shadow_Man Wrote:IATIA Wrote:If your god can 'see' into the future, then it must have already happened and again, we are merely puppets, but this time of history. Your perception may give you the appearance of free will, but it cannot be so as you are just playing out a history that has already happened ...
I have already answered this line of thinking several times. Knowledge of the past does not change the nature of the past. I am in the present, and I know what I did yesterday of my own free will. My knowledge today doesn't change the nature of the free will that I exercised yesterday, even if I recorded myself yesterday and replay it today to watch myself make my choices all over again. Remember, in your conception of time, our present is what you are currently calling our future, so my example of my own history is entirely applicable.
L e t - m e - t r y - t h i s - r e a l - s l o w. T o - s e e - i n t o - t h e - f u t u r e - r e q u i r e s - t h e - f u t u r e - t o - e x i s t. I f - t h e - f u t u r e - e x i s t s, - t h e n - w e - a r e - i n - t h e - p a s t - a n d - e v e r y - d e c i s i o n - t h a t - w e - w i l l - e v e r - m a k e - h a s - a l r e a d y - h a p p e n e d - a n d - w e - h a v e - n o - c h o i c e - b u t - t o - f o l l o w - t h e - p r o g r a m - t h a t - h a s - a l r e a d y - h a p p e n e d.
(April 29, 2016 at 6:09 pm)Shadow_Man Wrote:IATIA Wrote:... or are simply a product of determined quantum reactions. Free will would, by definition, force a random variable into the universe and that cannot be known until it happens or it is not free will.
No. Free will does not by definition force a random variable into the universe. Randomness is not freedom. Will is not random. A robot has no will at all. A robot with a random number generator in its controller is still a robot. It has not suddenly gained free will.
Did you actually read what you just wrote?
Free will is unpredictable. There are two red glasses before you on the table. Both are exactly the same. Which one will you pick? The choice is 50/50. There is no way to determine which you will pick (under a free will scenario). Whether you pick the one on the left or the one on the right will change the air currents, photon paths, gravitational field, etc. and that change will continue on for the life of the universe. That is a random variable. From the perspective of the universe, eventually every part of the universe will be touched by your choice.
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders
Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders
Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
