(April 9, 2011 at 12:09 pm)SpatiumTempusque Wrote: 1. The common good is good for the common. Sacrifice 1 to save 1,000,000. Not the other way around. It's reality that someone needs to suffer, might as well be a small amount of people that suffer so everyone else can feel better.
Hey Spat, I'm going to take your computer and your TV and any other recreational devices you have and sell them, and the same for everyone else in your neighborhood, then give the money to the poor, I don't care that it's your stuff, I don't care if you worked hard for it so shut up slave and hand me your property, it's in the common good. Aww you're going to suffer for it? Sorry, but you might as well suffer so these poor people can feel better.
Quote:2. People do not always know what they need VOID. You think this of me, don't you? That's why we need to use mathematical calculations and rationality. For example: Socializing healthcare in the U.S. screws over a lot of insurance companies but a lot of poor people can get cared for and this would be less expensive than what our government is paying for citizen health needs already, actually.
People know what they "need" better than the government does. Socializing healthcare in the U.S. was the biggest fucking boon to the insurance industry in decades, they got tons of new customers! You realize your government is forcing people to buy insurance from corporations right? Shut up slaves and give your money to these corporations, it's in the common good!
You know what Spat, I'm all for helping poor people get healthcare domestically and I'll gladly add it to the list of the causes I support (I already give for basic supplies in impoverished nations via Oxfam and Doctors Without Borders), but they don't have a right to it, you don't have any legitimate authority to steal from other people to give it to them, and if you and your collective thug machine want to force me to buy my own healthcare from a corporation AND pick up the bill for other people then fuck you, I don't care if you think it's in the "common good", If I am going to give my own property to other people then I will do it because I want to and not because some authoritarian jerkoff tells me to.
The only morally legitimate way to support those in need is to persuade those with resources to give to those in need, if people weren't losing 30-50% of their incomes in TAXES then they'd have a lot more to give and you can bet your ass they will. Welfare kills charity and Charity is a fucking hell of a lot more resource efficient than some bureaucratic/corporate partnership.
Quote:This already exists here in the States. The only problem is these judges are bought out.In a representative democracy... the collective government is elected to represent their people. If they abuse their power they will be replaced easily. Besides, what makes you think that the government will always abuse those that they govern simply because it's a government?
Established principles are supposed to protect against government and against collective thuggery, a party elected to power can't simply decide to seize property from say 49% of the population to give to the 51% if they are representing the majority of the people, that's why there are moves in your courts to repeal healthcare, because government does not have the authority to steal from others to give to the poor.
The "common good" is a scam, the only legitimate good is voluntary charity.
Quote:When the rules are unfair the government should create fair rules. In a democracy we elect people to do this. If rules are fine then the government has no right to change it.
Your government changes the rules all the fucking time, not in the name of fairness, but in the name of "growing the economy", "creating or saving jobs" and "helping producers" - That is not FAIR, it is the complete opposite, when one industry is subsidized and given tax breaks and others are not there is nothing FAIR about it.
The government setting prices and forcing people to supply at a fixed price to appease the masses is not FAIR either. Fair =/= Benefit the self-interests of the masses, Fair is letting people do whatever they like so long as they do not impose on others.
Quote:I largely agree with you here but I subscribe to a different form of capitalism. Everything should exist in the free market (with regulation that benefits the common good) except human rights that people can not obtain on their own, such as poor people getting health care, food, H2O, police, firefighters, etc...
If you're tampering with the economy you do not have a free market, setting the prices, taxing and subsidizing specific industry, trying to push the market in a given direction, corporate welfare, bailouts etc is NOT Free market.
Food, Healthcare, water and firefighters are not "rights" they are GOODS. Rights are only those things that emanate from our being, our bodies, our minds, our thoughts and the property we acquire with those things, that is what a Right is.
You think someone starving in a hunter-gatherer society had their "rights" to food violated? What about someone dying before healthcare was invented? Did their "right" to healthcare get violated? Rights DO NOT change as new things are invented!
Quote:I agree. My land is not your land, bitch!
Unless you want to come and take it for the "common good" right? Then who gives a shit who owns it? We're going to use our collective thug machine and fucking take it! We need to build a road through your property in the name of the "common good" so move all your shit or you'll get fucking bulldozed along with your house!
Quote:No. What the collective group (majority of citizens) sees as immoral, such as murder, should receive punishment.
That is not a case of trying to force people to do something simply because we disagree, that is punishing people who violate the rights of others!
Hey, the majority of your country sees abortion and immoral, punish them! What about Gays in Africa? The majority think they're evil so they're justified in burning them!
Hey, the majority see drugs as immoral too, I guess your collective thug machine has the right to stomp all over my freedoms because they don't like it!
Pork is totally immoral in Israel, so if you get caught eating it we're going to lock you up slave!
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