Classical Liberalism

[theVOID]

Wait. Where is it you live at again Void? Australia or someplace NOT American?

New Zealand

I have made my last post based on my *PERSONAL EXPERIENCES* with AMERICAN LIBERTARIANS, and what they have told me that they have done and plan to do, and you are saying that I am wrong on what I posted for my personal experiences?

Great, anecdotes. Now do you want to deal with data or just stick with the "I know a guy who payed and then got a new car" type shit?

Also, I dont have the time to nit pick every word, but I can EASILY point out where you have strawmanned my ass:

Please do.

Strawman - if you bothered to read further ahead you would have seen that I said: "I am posting on what I have seen and heard from most American Libertarians."

So you know some libertarians who think some things, so what? I think I'll stick with the study Reason Magazine did, you know, more than anecdotes.

Strawman built upon the idea keynesian systems will not work, because libertarians oppose any system that isnt libertarian.

What???? You ARE a Keynesian Jerry, and the bulk of the Tea Party is a revolt against Keynesian "Tax/borrow and spend" economics, the one where the government is squarely in the drivers seat playing with the people's money to fulfill their agenda and get re-elected and the people are little more than pawns with their freedoms being stolen in the name of "saving or creating jobs".

Personal attacks, especially since you yourself admitteded that american Libertarians are ranking with the teabaggers. I didnt need you to tell me that either. The libertarians I have spoken to IN MY OWN COUNTRY tell me they vote teaparty.

Sure, SOME libertarians are in the tea party because of ECONOMIC concerns, namely the reckless and foolish economic policy that they believe will ruin your country - It's not even MOST libertarians, it's SOME and the Tea party are at best 10-20% Libertarians, according to statistics and not "I've talked to people".

My point is still valid, to say that the Average tea party voter represents Libertarians BECAUSE they agree on prioritizing a balanced budget is nonsense. To take that stand means you've barely scratched the surface. That's why your attacks on Libertarians because of Tea Party positions

Strawman. You have set up a Reverend Jeremiah who doesnt understand economics, even the "basics". Why doesnt he understand economics? Because if he understood it he would realize a free market is the only way..therefore he must obviously make logical fallacies

No, You don't understand because you've said stupid shit about corporations causing inflation and show no understanding of the supply/demand curve, not simply because you disagree with me. Free Markets vs Keynesianism is a complicated issue, mostly because Keynesianism is notoriously complicated - That's completely beside the point though, there are plenty of people who argue keynesian policies and understand that which you have failed to grasp, if one of them wants to step up you might see what a debate on economics looks like.

If you don't understand something as core to the issue and people's every day lives as inflation, it's cause and it's relationship to prices and the cost of living then you don't have a hope in hell of forming a coherent economic position.

Hypocrisy. You tell me that Libs are not tea party, and accuse me of strawmanning because of it. Then you tell me libs are in the tea party ("Sure, that is for the same reason as the alliance of small government conservatives and Libertarians in the tea party, the economic issues take precedent") and accuse me of strawmanning because of it. Then you tell me Libs are allied with the GOP and then accuse me of strawmanning. You have set a system where only YOU decide when a group is "allied" and the same, "allied" yet seperate, or completely seperate. If I try to point out an alliance, you claim I am equivocating and/or strawmanning.

I never said there weren't Libertarians in the tea party, I said that the Tea Party do not represent Libertarian policy, there is some overlap on fiscal policy, but aside from that there are significant differences. I have no problem acknowledging that SOME Libertarians have joined the tea party because of their economic fears, but to attack Libertarians with Small-government conservative policies because of that is complete BS - You might as well attack Socialists with Communist policies because they agree with some Communists on some issues.

Some Librarians are in the republican party, they call it the "Campaign for Liberty" and do so because they actually have a chance of swaying the voters there, the people in the republican party are much more open to Individualism than the Dems who just want to fire up the collective machine and legislate their values.

Strawman. Your context makes it sound like I have NOT been saying the teaparty and Libertarians are in an alliance.

No, you have been going FAR beyond that, to the point of attacking Libertarians with examples of the policies of small-government conservatives. You have been EQUATING the two, rather than just pointing out that they are allied on SOME issues, primarily their economic fears.

Who else have they got that shares their economic fears? Nobody. The GOP and the Dems are the complete fucking opposite, they won't to anything serious about it because they are convinced that their Keynesian tax and spend nonsense is going to work - sure some Libertarians want to sway the GOP voters, good luck to them, but when you have people who genuinely fear the economic situation, a country that avoids collapse only by borrowing trillions of dollars a year, what are you going to do, reject the only people who share your concerns because you don't like their attitudes towards individual liberties?

And on the Individual Liberties issues they have fuck all allies, neither the republicans or the dems who are only somewhat better, If you see a division like the Tea Party/GOP split amongst the dems because of individual liberties you will see Libertarians over there. None of them seriously expect the dems to do a fucking thing about Gay Marriage or legalizing drugs and they do the exact opposite fiscally, so it's absolutely no surprise that there are very few Libertarians who vote Dem.

You do know that many of the Libertarians in the Tea Party voted for Obama because of his promised on freedoms right? http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=11697

Equivocation and strawman - I clearly stated that Ronald Reagan said that and by ringing true in context meant that it rang true with the LIBERTARIANS at the time. Meaning they AGREED with him and voted for him anyways, and still continue to vote for the GOP to this day. They were insulted by Reagan and STILL voted for him. Most libs vote their economics, and their economics only. Strawman on calling me a closet authoritarian, I have pulled no authority here, I only mentioned history. Why in the HELL would you think I would like and agree with Reagan, or use him as an argument from authority?

No, your Authoritarianism has naught to do with Reagan, it has to do with you wanting to legislate your values at the expense of individual freedoms. Authoritarian where convenient might be a good way to describe you.

Strawman - You clearly admit that the GOP, TEAPARTY, and LIBERTARIANS are allied. I have pointed out that the tea party and GOP are socially authoritarian, and the libertarians are not SUPPOSED to be, yet you still claim I am strawmanning you. I have made it very simple. Most of the libertarians I HAVE MET AND TALKED TO only care about their economic position and openly brag about voting Republican instead of wasting their vote on their own party.

SOME Libertarians are in the Tea Party, SOME are trying to sway the GOP, MANY voted Obama in 2008, SO FUCKING WHAT?

It is absolutely no excuse for attacking Libertarians with tea party policy. Oh, you have some anecdotes? BIG FUCKING DEAL. I can find you anecdotes for all sorts of shit. Why don't you go find some, ya know, DATA?

Look man, I dont hate you. I dont hate you one single bit. I disagree with the free market economy. You support it. Why should we go at each others throats over it? We arent even in the same country.

So argue against free markets and not the conservative majority of the tea party then? You have barely touched on free markets and I'm not sure you're even aware of that.

Your politics has more influence on my country than our politics economically. We, like every other fucker, are tied to your currency and if you guys crash then we burn with you. I'd rather peg our currency to the RNB, at least china have some fucking economic sense. In fact I'm for the RNB being the global reserve, that's going to fuck you guys over though, your main export is the dollar.