(May 24, 2016 at 5:13 am)Ignorant Wrote:(May 23, 2016 at 8:26 pm)dyresand Wrote: You stated in both all knowing you cannot have a all knowing god for both you just cant.
Why not? I apologize if I will not accept that without a reason to do so (especially when I have reasons to accept the opposite)
Quote:That's the obvious issue, a all knowing being does not allow for free will.
Ok, let us grant that for now.
Does an all-knowing being allow for contingency? Contingency is not the same as freedom/free-will. Consider this example:
If I (a human person) roll a 6-sided die, I pre-know all 6 of the contingent (i.e. possible) outcomes. I do not know, however, which of the 6 possible outcomes will actually turn up. When I roll the die, suppose it turns up 3. 3 is the actual outcome of the 6 possible outcomes. In other words, a rolled dice has BOTH 6 contingent outcomes, AND 1 actual outcome. Human's can only pre-know the contingencies.
Now consider the perspective of an all-knowing being:
God pre-knows all 6 of the contingent outcomes. He also pre-knows which of the 6 possible outcomes will actually turn up. As all-knowing, he knows BOTH the contingencies AND the actual outcome. They are not mutually exclusive. A 6 sided die really has BOTH 6 contingent outcomes AND 1 actual outcome. God knows everything about both KINDS of outcomes.
God's knowledge of the actual outcome does not somehow remove the contingent reality of a rolled 6-sided die. It is still contingent, and exactly one contingent reality becomes an actual reality.
Quote:However if said being did not know everything then sure free will by all means can/could exist.
Well, we will come back to freedom. Let's talk about contingency first.
1. You are using the argument from contingency.. don't do that but ill humor you anyway.
if something is contingent, then it derives its existence outside itself.
So then you could say the universe is contingent then say the universe drives its existence
from outside of itself. (granted that even if the universe even has a outside i.e. multiverse theory)
So that whole first argument you just used means nothing.
2. The same argument can be said for that as well with god like beings as well. They would know everything
every single outcome of the six sided dice roll. But again it would mean nothing since god would have foreknowledge of everything.
Atheism is a non-prophet organization join today.
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