(May 24, 2016 at 10:20 am)dyresand Wrote: 1. You are using the argument from contingency.. don't do that but ill humor you anyway.
No I am not, actually. I am inviting you to distinguish between two sorts of events: necessary and contingent. Consider a fruit tree: does a fruit tree depend on the presence of sunlight to make fruit? If it does, then fruit-making is contingent. If a fruit tree doesn't depend on anything to make fruit, then it makes fruit necessarily. Which one do you think it is?
Quote:if something is contingent, then it derives its existence outside itself.
So then you could say the universe is contingent then say the universe drives its existence
from outside of itself. (granted that even if the universe even has a outside i.e. multiverse theory)
So that whole first argument you just used means nothing.
The contingency/non-contingency of the universe as a whole is irrelevant to the consideration of particular contingent events.
Even if everything in the universe happens without conditions (i.e. if the universe is necessary) save the 6 contingencies of a 6-sided die roll, then the universe necessarily causes exactly 6 contingencies. It isn't all or nothing.
Do you think rolling a 6-sided die is a contingent event or a necessary one?
Quote:2. The same argument can be said for that as well with god like beings as well. They would know everything
every single outcome of the six sided dice roll.
Yes - an all-knowing god would know every single out come.
Would an all-knowing god ALSO know every single POSSIBLE outcome?
Quote:But again it would mean nothing since god would have foreknowledge of everything.
I think it means more than nothing that an all-knowing god knows every single outcome AS WELL AS every single POSSIBLE outcome.
How about this: let's forget god's involvement entirely... in a reality without god, is the outcome of a 6-sided die roll contingent or not?