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Free will
RE: Free will
(May 25, 2016 at 3:55 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: Are necessity and contingency real properties that a thing has?  I think not.  They are merely descriptors.

Well of course they are descriptors. What are they describing? Whether an event obtains differently according to different possible sets of conditions (contingent) - OR - a particular event obtains in the same way without any relation to any possible set of conditions (necessary). [Edit - addition: So I agree, they aren't properties "had" by a thing]

Quote:You can't mount free will on a non-real property.

I'm not sure I've mounted free will on anything (even though I'm not sure what you mean by "mount" exactly). If it exists at all, free-will would be part of a set of conditions which determine a particular action AND the freedom therein would, itself, depend on certain conditions being met.

In short, contingency describes an event, an occurence, etc., considered in itself, as one that obtains according to certain conditions being met (e.g. a tree making fruit). 

Freedom describes specific conditions in an acting subject which, when present, allow for that subject to act freely. [Edit - addition: When absent, the acting subject can act, but it cannot act freely. (e.g. a fruit tree cannot make fruit freely)]

Obviously, if that act is not contingent (i.e. if it does not depend on conditions) then the act cannot be free (which describes a specific set of conditions). No conditions no freedom. If conditions, then maybe freedom, depending on whether or not specific conditions are met.

If contingency is not real, then neither is freedom. If contingency is real, then freedom may or may not be real, and would require different sorts of questions. That is why I care about distinguishing necessity and contingency.
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Free will - by dyresand - March 26, 2016 at 10:55 am
RE: Free will - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 26, 2016 at 11:07 am
RE: Free will - by dyresand - March 26, 2016 at 11:17 am
RE: Free will - by Shadow_Man - April 1, 2016 at 7:53 pm
RE: Free will - by brewer - April 1, 2016 at 9:22 pm
RE: Free will - by dyresand - April 1, 2016 at 9:52 pm
RE: Free will - by Shadow_Man - April 4, 2016 at 8:05 pm
RE: Free will - by dyresand - April 7, 2016 at 7:46 pm
RE: Free will - by Shadow_Man - April 8, 2016 at 6:35 pm
RE: Free will - by dyresand - April 8, 2016 at 7:08 pm
RE: Free will - by Shadow_Man - April 12, 2016 at 6:38 pm
RE: Free will - by dyresand - April 12, 2016 at 6:50 pm
RE: Free will - by Little lunch - March 26, 2016 at 1:25 pm
RE: Free will - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 27, 2016 at 3:24 am
RE: Free will - by Ryantology - March 26, 2016 at 7:47 pm
RE: Free will - by ErGingerbreadMandude - March 26, 2016 at 11:36 am
RE: Free will - by robvalue - March 26, 2016 at 1:44 pm
RE: Free will - by Excited Penguin - March 26, 2016 at 1:51 pm
RE: Free will - by robvalue - March 26, 2016 at 2:40 pm
RE: Free will - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - March 26, 2016 at 3:01 pm
RE: Free will - by dyresand - March 26, 2016 at 7:17 pm
RE: Free will - by The Grand Nudger - April 1, 2016 at 8:01 pm
RE: Free will - by Little lunch - April 1, 2016 at 10:30 pm
RE: Free will - by ErGingerbreadMandude - April 1, 2016 at 11:11 pm
RE: Free will - by The Grand Nudger - April 1, 2016 at 11:41 pm
RE: Free will - by ErGingerbreadMandude - April 2, 2016 at 10:07 am
RE: Free will - by JuliaL - April 2, 2016 at 12:08 am
RE: Free will - by Little lunch - April 2, 2016 at 12:28 am
RE: Free will - by scoobysnack - April 2, 2016 at 12:59 am
RE: Free will - by dyresand - April 2, 2016 at 1:55 am
RE: Free will - by scoobysnack - April 2, 2016 at 2:16 am
RE: Free will - by dyresand - April 2, 2016 at 2:33 am
RE: Free will - by scoobysnack - April 2, 2016 at 2:49 am
RE: Free will - by dyresand - April 2, 2016 at 2:59 am
RE: Free will - by Wyrd of Gawd - April 2, 2016 at 3:12 am
RE: Free will - by Little lunch - April 2, 2016 at 1:45 am
RE: Free will - by Silver - April 2, 2016 at 3:00 am
RE: Free will - by The Grand Nudger - April 2, 2016 at 3:43 pm
RE: Free will - by ErGingerbreadMandude - April 2, 2016 at 9:37 pm
RE: Free will - by athrock - April 2, 2016 at 5:16 pm
RE: Free will - by Jehanne - April 2, 2016 at 5:24 pm
RE: Free will - by athrock - April 2, 2016 at 7:11 pm
RE: Free will - by Jehanne - April 2, 2016 at 8:32 pm
RE: Free will - by dyresand - April 3, 2016 at 12:24 am
RE: Free will - by scoobysnack - April 3, 2016 at 1:56 pm
RE: Free will - by Drich - April 4, 2016 at 8:31 am
RE: Free will - by scoobysnack - April 4, 2016 at 8:14 pm
RE: Free will - by dyresand - April 7, 2016 at 7:41 pm
RE: Free will - by brewer - April 4, 2016 at 9:43 pm
RE: Free will - by Rhondazvous - April 8, 2016 at 7:51 pm
RE: Free will - by Shadow_Man - April 16, 2016 at 2:13 pm
RE: Free will - by dyresand - April 16, 2016 at 3:35 pm
RE: Free will - by Shadow_Man - April 21, 2016 at 6:41 pm
RE: Free will - by Ryantology - April 17, 2016 at 7:54 pm
RE: Free will - by Shadow_Man - April 22, 2016 at 7:21 pm
RE: Free will - by IATIA - April 22, 2016 at 7:36 pm
RE: Free will - by Shadow_Man - April 24, 2016 at 7:20 pm
RE: Free will - by IATIA - April 25, 2016 at 11:12 pm
RE: Free will - by Shadow_Man - April 26, 2016 at 9:36 pm
RE: Free will - by IATIA - April 27, 2016 at 11:38 pm
RE: Free will - by Shadow_Man - April 29, 2016 at 6:09 pm
RE: Free will - by IATIA - April 29, 2016 at 8:48 pm
RE: Free will - by Shadow_Man - May 6, 2016 at 8:35 pm
RE: Free will - by IATIA - May 7, 2016 at 12:04 am
RE: Free will - by Shadow_Man - May 11, 2016 at 6:33 pm
RE: Free will - by IATIA - May 11, 2016 at 7:38 pm
RE: Free will - by Shadow_Man - May 13, 2016 at 7:44 pm
RE: Free will - by Angrboda - April 25, 2016 at 12:58 pm
RE: Free will - by Shadow_Man - April 30, 2016 at 8:56 am
RE: Free will - by Angrboda - April 30, 2016 at 11:45 am
RE: Free will - by Shadow_Man - May 7, 2016 at 8:20 am
RE: Free will - by IATIA - May 7, 2016 at 9:07 am
RE: Free will - by dyresand - May 7, 2016 at 9:56 am
RE: Free will - by IATIA - May 11, 2016 at 7:52 pm
RE: Free will - by chrisdubbya - May 11, 2016 at 8:10 pm
RE: Free will - by dyresand - May 11, 2016 at 11:03 pm
RE: Free will - by robvalue - May 12, 2016 at 4:13 am
RE: Free will - by Edwardo Piet - April 22, 2016 at 7:28 pm
RE: Free will - by Shadow_Man - April 26, 2016 at 7:05 pm
RE: Free will - by Edwardo Piet - April 26, 2016 at 8:41 pm
RE: Free will - by Shadow_Man - May 5, 2016 at 6:22 pm
RE: Free will - by Edwardo Piet - April 26, 2016 at 8:47 pm
RE: Free will - by ApeNotKillApe - April 26, 2016 at 9:04 pm
RE: Free will - by Edwardo Piet - April 26, 2016 at 9:17 pm
RE: Free will - by ApeNotKillApe - April 26, 2016 at 9:48 pm
RE: Free will - by Aroura - April 29, 2016 at 6:46 pm
RE: Free will - by deleteduser12345 - April 29, 2016 at 7:18 pm
RE: Free will - by Aroura - April 29, 2016 at 8:32 pm
RE: Free will - by Edwardo Piet - April 29, 2016 at 9:43 pm
RE: Free will - by Edwardo Piet - May 5, 2016 at 6:34 pm
RE: Free will - by Mudhammam - May 5, 2016 at 11:30 pm
RE: Free will - by dyresand - May 6, 2016 at 9:30 am
RE: Free will - by Edwardo Piet - May 7, 2016 at 12:43 pm
RE: Free will - by The Grand Nudger - May 10, 2016 at 1:20 pm
RE: Free will - by Shadow_Man - May 12, 2016 at 7:45 pm
RE: Free will - by IATIA - May 11, 2016 at 8:17 pm
RE: Free will - by The Grand Nudger - May 11, 2016 at 9:09 pm
RE: Free will - by IATIA - May 11, 2016 at 11:07 pm
RE: Free will - by The Grand Nudger - May 12, 2016 at 7:55 pm
RE: Free will - by Shadow_Man - May 14, 2016 at 3:20 pm
RE: Free will - by dyresand - May 13, 2016 at 8:31 pm
RE: Free will - by Shadow_Man - May 18, 2016 at 7:12 pm
RE: Free will - by IATIA - May 18, 2016 at 11:07 pm
RE: Free will - by The Grand Nudger - May 14, 2016 at 3:29 pm
RE: Free will - by Shadow_Man - May 21, 2016 at 1:20 pm
RE: Free will - by IATIA - May 14, 2016 at 4:58 pm
RE: Free will - by The Grand Nudger - May 21, 2016 at 3:21 pm
RE: Free will - by Ignorant - May 21, 2016 at 4:51 pm
RE: Free will - by dyresand - May 21, 2016 at 4:56 pm
RE: Free will - by Ignorant - May 21, 2016 at 5:11 pm
RE: Free will - by dyresand - May 21, 2016 at 6:21 pm
RE: Free will - by The Grand Nudger - May 21, 2016 at 5:11 pm
RE: Free will - by Ignorant - May 21, 2016 at 5:13 pm
RE: Free will - by The Grand Nudger - May 21, 2016 at 5:58 pm
RE: Free will - by The Grand Nudger - May 21, 2016 at 6:45 pm
RE: Free will - by dyresand - May 22, 2016 at 11:19 am
RE: Free will - by Ignorant - May 22, 2016 at 12:26 pm
RE: Free will - by dyresand - May 22, 2016 at 12:37 pm
RE: Free will - by Ignorant - May 22, 2016 at 3:39 pm
RE: Free will - by dyresand - May 22, 2016 at 4:25 pm
RE: Free will - by Ignorant - May 22, 2016 at 4:34 pm
RE: Free will - by dyresand - May 22, 2016 at 5:05 pm
RE: Free will - by Ignorant - May 23, 2016 at 5:08 am
RE: Free will - by dyresand - May 23, 2016 at 11:08 am
RE: Free will - by Ignorant - May 23, 2016 at 11:33 am
RE: Free will - by dyresand - May 23, 2016 at 12:58 pm
RE: Free will - by Ignorant - May 23, 2016 at 4:38 pm
RE: Free will - by dyresand - May 23, 2016 at 8:26 pm
RE: Free will - by Ignorant - May 24, 2016 at 5:13 am
RE: Free will - by dyresand - May 24, 2016 at 10:20 am
RE: Free will - by Ignorant - May 24, 2016 at 11:01 am
RE: Free will - by dyresand - May 24, 2016 at 12:22 pm
RE: Free will - by Ignorant - May 24, 2016 at 6:43 pm
RE: Free will - by Angrboda - May 24, 2016 at 1:10 pm
RE: Free will - by dyresand - May 24, 2016 at 1:25 pm
RE: Free will - by Ignorant - May 24, 2016 at 6:20 pm
RE: Free will - by dyresand - May 24, 2016 at 6:32 pm
RE: Free will - by Ignorant - May 24, 2016 at 6:58 pm
RE: Free will - by Silver - May 24, 2016 at 7:11 pm
RE: Free will - by dyresand - May 24, 2016 at 7:14 pm
RE: Free will - by Ignorant - May 25, 2016 at 8:10 am
RE: Free will - by Ignorant - May 22, 2016 at 12:25 pm
RE: Free will - by The Grand Nudger - May 22, 2016 at 6:20 pm
RE: Free will - by Ignorant - May 23, 2016 at 5:02 am
RE: Free will - by IATIA - May 23, 2016 at 9:19 pm
RE: Free will - by dyresand - May 24, 2016 at 7:09 pm
RE: Free will - by Ignorant - May 25, 2016 at 1:37 am
RE: Free will - by Spinchance - May 25, 2016 at 5:08 am
RE: Free will - by Ignorant - May 25, 2016 at 7:28 am
RE: Free will - by dyresand - May 25, 2016 at 1:35 pm
RE: Free will - by Ignorant - May 25, 2016 at 3:32 pm
RE: Free will - by dyresand - May 25, 2016 at 3:36 pm
RE: Free will - by Ignorant - May 25, 2016 at 3:51 pm
RE: Free will - by IATIA - May 25, 2016 at 6:55 pm
RE: Free will - by Ignorant - May 26, 2016 at 3:15 am
RE: Free will - by IATIA - May 26, 2016 at 6:20 pm
RE: Free will - by Ignorant - May 26, 2016 at 3:33 am
RE: Free will - by Edwardo Piet - May 25, 2016 at 3:41 am
RE: Free will - by Shadow_Man - May 29, 2016 at 12:34 pm
RE: Free will - by Edwardo Piet - May 25, 2016 at 3:47 am
RE: Free will - by Angrboda - May 25, 2016 at 3:55 pm
RE: Free will - by Ignorant - May 25, 2016 at 4:25 pm
RE: Free will - by Edwardo Piet - May 25, 2016 at 6:21 pm
RE: Free will - by The Grand Nudger - May 26, 2016 at 6:38 am
RE: Free will - by Ignorant - May 26, 2016 at 7:04 am
RE: Free will - by The Grand Nudger - May 26, 2016 at 7:26 am
RE: Free will - by Ignorant - May 26, 2016 at 7:39 am
RE: Free will - by The Grand Nudger - May 26, 2016 at 7:52 am
RE: Free will - by Ignorant - May 26, 2016 at 8:32 am
RE: Free will - by Ignorant - May 26, 2016 at 8:43 am
RE: Free will - by Shadow_Man - May 28, 2016 at 7:06 am
RE: Free will - by The Grand Nudger - May 26, 2016 at 12:31 pm
RE: Free will - by Ignorant - May 26, 2016 at 4:23 pm
RE: Free will - by dyresand - May 26, 2016 at 4:31 pm
RE: Free will - by Ignorant - May 26, 2016 at 4:39 pm
RE: Free will - by dyresand - May 26, 2016 at 4:53 pm
RE: Free will - by Ignorant - May 26, 2016 at 4:40 pm
RE: Free will - by The Grand Nudger - May 26, 2016 at 4:49 pm
RE: Free will - by dyresand - May 26, 2016 at 4:56 pm
RE: Free will - by Ignorant - May 26, 2016 at 5:32 pm
RE: Free will - by Ignorant - May 26, 2016 at 5:39 pm
RE: Free will - by dom.donald - May 26, 2016 at 7:09 pm
RE: Free will - by dyresand - May 26, 2016 at 11:17 pm
RE: Free will - by The Grand Nudger - May 27, 2016 at 12:13 am
RE: Free will - by dyresand - May 27, 2016 at 12:45 am
RE: Free will - by Ignorant - May 27, 2016 at 4:49 am
RE: Free will - by Ignorant - May 27, 2016 at 2:21 am
RE: Free will - by The Grand Nudger - May 27, 2016 at 7:04 am
RE: Free will - by Ignorant - May 27, 2016 at 7:34 am
RE: Free will - by Ignorant - May 27, 2016 at 7:48 am
RE: Free will - by The Grand Nudger - May 27, 2016 at 8:07 am
RE: Free will - by Ignorant - May 27, 2016 at 8:10 am
RE: Free will - by The Grand Nudger - May 27, 2016 at 8:17 am
RE: Free will - by Ignorant - May 27, 2016 at 8:27 am
RE: Free will - by The Grand Nudger - May 27, 2016 at 9:43 am
RE: Free will - by Ignorant - May 27, 2016 at 11:47 am
RE: Free will - by The Grand Nudger - May 27, 2016 at 12:45 pm
RE: Free will - by Ignorant - May 27, 2016 at 2:15 pm
RE: Free will - by dyresand - May 27, 2016 at 4:41 pm
Free will - by dom.donald - May 27, 2016 at 10:35 pm
RE: Free will - by dyresand - May 27, 2016 at 10:44 pm
RE: Free will - by Edwardo Piet - May 28, 2016 at 12:19 am
RE: Free will - by dyresand - May 28, 2016 at 12:26 am
RE: Free will - by Edwardo Piet - May 28, 2016 at 11:55 am
RE: Free will - by Shadow_Man - June 2, 2016 at 7:50 pm
RE: Free will - by IATIA - June 2, 2016 at 7:54 pm
RE: Free will - by Edwardo Piet - June 16, 2016 at 12:53 am
RE: Free will - by Silver - June 2, 2016 at 7:59 pm
RE: Free will - by IATIA - June 2, 2016 at 8:15 pm
RE: Free will - by Silver - June 2, 2016 at 8:17 pm
RE: Free will - by IATIA - June 2, 2016 at 8:32 pm
RE: Free will - by Shadow_Man - June 9, 2016 at 5:45 pm
RE: Free will - by IATIA - June 10, 2016 at 4:16 pm
RE: Free will - by Shadow_Man - June 15, 2016 at 6:23 pm
RE: Free will - by IATIA - June 9, 2016 at 7:02 pm
RE: Free will - by Ignorant - June 10, 2016 at 6:17 am
RE: Free will - by dyresand - June 10, 2016 at 1:04 pm
RE: Free will - by Ignorant - June 10, 2016 at 5:00 pm
RE: Free will - by Losty - June 10, 2016 at 1:19 pm
RE: Free will - by Edwardo Piet - June 10, 2016 at 2:08 pm
RE: Free will - by Losty - June 10, 2016 at 2:26 pm
RE: Free will - by Edwardo Piet - June 10, 2016 at 3:32 pm
RE: Free will - by Harassed - June 10, 2016 at 5:16 pm
Free will - by dom.donald - June 10, 2016 at 10:15 pm
RE: Free will - by Shadow_Man - June 15, 2016 at 6:27 pm
RE: Free will - by IATIA - June 15, 2016 at 7:57 pm
RE: Free will - by Shadow_Man - June 23, 2016 at 7:47 pm
RE: Free will - by Thomas Kelly252525 - June 12, 2016 at 8:48 pm
RE: Free will - by John V - June 14, 2016 at 8:34 am
RE: Free will - by SofaKingHigh - June 14, 2016 at 8:41 am
RE: Free will - by John V - June 14, 2016 at 10:02 am
RE: Free will - by dyresand - June 14, 2016 at 3:53 pm
RE: Free will - by The Grand Nudger - June 15, 2016 at 6:37 pm
RE: Free will - by The Grand Nudger - June 15, 2016 at 7:59 pm
RE: Free will - by IATIA - June 15, 2016 at 8:02 pm
RE: Free will - by The Grand Nudger - June 15, 2016 at 8:03 pm
RE: Free will - by Silver - June 16, 2016 at 12:44 am
RE: Free will - by Edwardo Piet - June 16, 2016 at 12:38 am
RE: Free will - by The Grand Nudger - June 16, 2016 at 10:54 am
RE: Free will - by Thomas Kelly252525 - June 16, 2016 at 12:10 pm
RE: Free will - by The Grand Nudger - June 16, 2016 at 12:12 pm
RE: Free will - by Thomas Kelly252525 - June 16, 2016 at 12:21 pm
RE: Free will - by The Grand Nudger - June 16, 2016 at 12:31 pm
RE: Free will - by Thomas Kelly252525 - June 16, 2016 at 12:45 pm
RE: Free will - by h4ym4n - June 16, 2016 at 1:32 pm
RE: Free will - by The Grand Nudger - June 16, 2016 at 1:37 pm
RE: Free will - by Thomas Kelly252525 - June 16, 2016 at 1:40 pm
RE: Free will - by Spirian - June 16, 2016 at 1:53 pm
RE: Free will - by The Grand Nudger - June 16, 2016 at 1:56 pm
RE: Free will - by Thomas Kelly252525 - June 16, 2016 at 2:03 pm
RE: Free will - by Spirian - June 16, 2016 at 2:07 pm
RE: Free will - by The Grand Nudger - June 16, 2016 at 2:06 pm
RE: Free will - by Thomas Kelly252525 - June 16, 2016 at 3:07 pm
RE: Free will - by The Grand Nudger - June 16, 2016 at 2:09 pm
RE: Free will - by Thomas Kelly252525 - June 16, 2016 at 2:12 pm
RE: Free will - by The Grand Nudger - June 16, 2016 at 2:14 pm
RE: Free will - by Thomas Kelly252525 - June 16, 2016 at 2:18 pm
RE: Free will - by Spirian - June 16, 2016 at 2:18 pm
RE: Free will - by The Grand Nudger - June 16, 2016 at 2:19 pm
RE: Free will - by Thomas Kelly252525 - June 16, 2016 at 2:24 pm
RE: Free will - by Spirian - June 16, 2016 at 2:27 pm
RE: Free will - by The Grand Nudger - June 16, 2016 at 2:27 pm
RE: Free will - by Thomas Kelly252525 - June 16, 2016 at 2:31 pm
RE: Free will - by Spirian - June 16, 2016 at 2:37 pm
RE: Free will - by The Grand Nudger - June 16, 2016 at 2:39 pm
RE: Free will - by Thomas Kelly252525 - June 16, 2016 at 3:34 pm
RE: Free will - by Spirian - June 16, 2016 at 3:05 pm
RE: Free will - by The Grand Nudger - June 16, 2016 at 3:06 pm
RE: Free will - by Spirian - June 16, 2016 at 3:22 pm
RE: Free will - by The Grand Nudger - June 16, 2016 at 3:12 pm
RE: Free will - by madog - June 16, 2016 at 3:13 pm
RE: Free will - by The Grand Nudger - June 16, 2016 at 3:29 pm
RE: Free will - by Spirian - June 16, 2016 at 3:32 pm
RE: Free will - by The Grand Nudger - June 16, 2016 at 3:32 pm
RE: Free will - by The Grand Nudger - June 16, 2016 at 3:40 pm
RE: Free will - by Thomas Kelly252525 - June 16, 2016 at 3:57 pm
RE: Free will - by The Grand Nudger - June 16, 2016 at 4:01 pm
RE: Free will - by Thomas Kelly252525 - June 16, 2016 at 4:10 pm
RE: Free will - by The Grand Nudger - June 16, 2016 at 4:11 pm
RE: Free will - by Thomas Kelly252525 - June 16, 2016 at 4:20 pm
RE: Free will - by Edwardo Piet - June 16, 2016 at 4:19 pm
RE: Free will - by The Grand Nudger - June 16, 2016 at 4:23 pm
RE: Free will - by Thomas Kelly252525 - June 16, 2016 at 4:29 pm
RE: Free will - by Spirian - June 16, 2016 at 4:34 pm
RE: Free will - by Edwardo Piet - June 16, 2016 at 5:59 pm
RE: Free will - by Edwardo Piet - June 16, 2016 at 4:26 pm
RE: Free will - by Losty - June 16, 2016 at 4:27 pm
RE: Free will - by The Grand Nudger - June 16, 2016 at 4:33 pm
RE: Free will - by Losty - June 16, 2016 at 4:46 pm
RE: Free will - by bennyboy - June 16, 2016 at 6:49 pm
RE: Free will - by Losty - June 16, 2016 at 6:50 pm
RE: Free will - by Edwardo Piet - June 16, 2016 at 8:47 pm
RE: Free will - by Edwardo Piet - June 16, 2016 at 8:48 pm
RE: Free will - by The Grand Nudger - June 23, 2016 at 11:12 pm
RE: Free will - by Shadow_Man - June 26, 2016 at 2:35 pm
RE: Free will - by Ayen - June 25, 2016 at 8:49 pm
RE: Free will - by Edwardo Piet - June 26, 2016 at 2:37 pm
RE: Free will - by The Grand Nudger - June 26, 2016 at 2:44 pm
RE: Free will - by The Grand Nudger - June 26, 2016 at 2:49 pm

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