RE: Free will
May 26, 2016 at 3:15 am
(This post was last modified: May 26, 2016 at 3:16 am by Ignorant.)
(May 25, 2016 at 6:55 pm)IATIA Wrote: If god knows the outcome, then there are no choices or possibilities.
The conclusion doesn't seem to follow. In fact, it is inconsistent with you next sentence. It also demonstrates the importance of distinguishing between determination, necessity and contingency.
Quote:There are 36 possible combinations in a single roll of the dice.-emphasis mine
We agree that there are 36 possible outcomes of rolling two 6-sided dice. Somehow, you think that because God knows which of the 36 outcomes will happen, the other 35 weren't actually possible? How does that follow? We'll see below.
Quote:If god already knows how the dice will land, the other 35 possibilities are completely irrelevant as they could never display on that roll or that would disprove god's infallibility.
And an all-knowing god would know this. He knows HOW they land. This means he knows that they will land contingently in a single particular way which is one of 36 possible ways they could have landed. He knows because he determines, out of the 36 possible known outcomes, which will actually occur.
Quote:If god already knows how the dice will land, the other 35 possibilities are completely irrelevant as they could never display on that roll or that would disprove god's infallibility.
This is true, but this is simply the infallible determination of a single outcome out of several possible ones. You seem to be drawing a conclusion that because it is determined, it happens by necessity. That is a non sequitur, and it is the conflation of determination and necessity (which rests on an equivocation of necessity) which I keep inviting you to reconsider.
![[Image: 14sjhk.jpg]](https://i.imgflip.com/14sjhk.jpg)
If god knows that a single roll of the dice is 1 possibility out of 36 (and he does), then that means that the outcome is determined by god AS occurring among actual possibilities (i.e. as occurring contingently). He might have determined a different outcome (it is a real possibility). His knowledge of the actual outcome does not contradict or cancel out his knowledge of the possibilities and his ability to determine among them.
Quote:If god already knows how the dice will land, the other 35 possibilities are completely irrelevant as they could never display on that roll or that would disprove god's infallibility.
Yes, if some other outcome occurred which differed from the outcome determined and known by god, then it would in fact disprove god's infallibility. Determination does not equal necessity