RE: If free will was not real
August 20, 2016 at 12:48 am
(This post was last modified: August 20, 2016 at 12:55 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(August 19, 2016 at 8:41 pm)Gemini Wrote: I wouldn't agree that you can maintain moral desert even if incompatibilist free will did exist. Whether a person used their contra-causal free will to cause harm or was causally determined to cause the harm is irrelevant. Separate them from the gp as long as they pose a threat, but don't inflict pain on someone who poses no threat to anyone, simply to satisfy one's own need for revenge.
Well...the only comment I made about moral desert is how it -couldn't- be maintained...so I don't know who you're disagreeing with, here.
Quote:I think the argument for "freedom-come-ownership" is more your interpretation of my argument than my actual argument. My argument is "freedom-come-identitity." I.e., I am identical to the processes that determine my decision, so they are not imposed by an external source, and hence free.It's not, it just sounds shitty when I phrase it that way, and so you don't like it.
Quote:Explain how a nest thermostat previsions courses of action.Explain how you do..or it's an empty objection/question.
Quote:To someone who stands in the way of intelligence, intelligence is more frightening than malice. Or should be.I think that the two, together, are the perfect human combo. A malicious intelligence......wewt!
Quote:The man with no brain was an anomaly. Most people with severe frontal lobe damage will manifest symptoms consistent with what I described.That's true, but his mere existence makes the whole "frontal lobe" business moot point (in addition to being a shifting of goal posts) even if he's the only example. Obviously...it isn't necessary.
Quote:I agree you can isolate people from the gp without imposing moral desert on them. For example, if we diagnose a kid as a sociopath, we can isolate him from the gp simply based on that.I don't say that, though..because I can't identify any instance n which someone is free from the duress of external agents. I can see times when they are under -less-..or more duress.....but meh. You;re taking issue to the term trivial as though I were calling our -will- trivial..rather than your description of it as free trivial.
To say that a decision is made by neurally healthy agent free from duress by other agents is to say that the decision is free in a non-trivial sense. Not in the ultimate sense that incompatibilists want, sure, but non-trivial all the same.
Quote:I think you're too hung up on the physical model of our decision making. Yes, that's not free. "Free" refers to an experience of making a decision while not under duress, whose neural correlate is the frontal lobes. That's a real referent which justifies the use of the term.Except that you can;t justify even -that- use of the term, thusfar...you can only play with the idea if we count the hits and ignore the misses...if we draw arbitrary lines...and we;re now talking about frontal lobes..so agian...not a free wil...just a "human will". Ofc it's a "real referant"...but is it an accurate one..is the human will, your will, that comes from your frontal lobes........ free?
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