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This is unexpected.
#34
RE: This is unexpected.
(May 20, 2011 at 10:48 am)R-e-n-n-a-t Wrote: The definitions of magic, of demons, and of rituals, love spells, etc. Are deliberately inaccurate. I don't believe in magic, nor a higher power, but (Zenith) you're viewing 'magic' through the Christian lense, whether or not you call yourself an atheist. Hence the 'magic is not magical' phrase.

Then please tell me your understanding of magic, clearly.
For instance,
Quote:The amount of energy needed to levitate a teacup (genuinely) would be of sufficient force to place an idea in a group of people’s heads half‐way across the earth, in turn, motivating them in accordance with your will.

IS MAGIC (I mean, with your mind or will or emotions or energy to make a cup leviate??).
Why? Well, magic is:
Quote:the art of producing a desired effect or result through the use of incantation or various other techniques that presumably assure human control of supernatural agencies or the forces of nature.

the word "magic" doesn't have anything to do with devils or demons. If a guy claims that he separated the waters of a sea in two, 'with his mind', he claims "magic". the same with levitating a cup or putting a thought in million of men through a ritual. And they are being called "supernatural", not "natural".

And the same with a man dying due to a curse:
Satanic Bible, INTRODUCTION by Burton H. Wolfe Wrote:Next, one of LaVey’s most devoted witches, Jayne Mansfield, died under a curse he had placed on the head of her suitor, lawyer Sam Brody, for a variety of reasons I have explained in The Devil’s Avenger; LaVey had persistently warned her away from Brody and felt depressed over her death.
It was a PHYSICAL death, not a symbolical death. So Satanism DOES claim magic. (well, at least I don't consider 'natural' to use a ritual for somebody to die, if it works - somehow i.e. someone does die, as they claim)

And the definition of magic given in the Satanic Bible is:
Satanic Bible, Book of Belial, THE THEORY AND PRACTICE OF SATANIC MAGIC Wrote:The change in situations or events in accordance with one's will, which would, using normally accepted methods, be unchangeable.
Which supports what I've written above and sounds very "magical" magic.

Quote:The definitions of magic, of demons, and of rituals, love spells, etc. Are deliberately inaccurate... The mentioning and explanation of these various things are for two reasons only:

I tell you, when a thing is written clearly in a way and people say that it must be taken metaphorically, when it sounds very literal, it gets sounds very suspicious to me.
Reasons:
- All religions have their forced re-interpretations to fit the modern age. And if I took them as they say, then the Qur'an, for instance, would indeed specify the Big-Bang, modern knowledge about atoms, and other modern scientific discoveries, that Muhammud could have not known back then (which would mean that "Islam is the true religion" - as they say). But because of the fact that those things are forcibly made metaphorical, I can't believe them. So why should I believe when the Church of Satan claims that "a" actually means "b" and that "kill" actually mean "annoy" or something?
- Think about this: if Anton LaVey meant things literally, how would he have written?
- Consider that, if Anton LaVey really meant them literally, his followers now would re-interpret things in many ways so that they would not be seen as obsolete and stupid, as times have changed, and the bullshit that worked then, doesn't work now.
- "One, to deliberately mock traditional definitions that are so deeply rooted in society " - You don't mock a traditional definition by using it yourself too. The only effect you can get is to be regarded similar to them. Also consider that when Anton LaVey came with his ideas, "religion" was pretty popular and accepted, which made his Satanic Bible and theories to appear shocking in the eyes of the people (why? because "religion" was fashion, not atheism). If Anton LaVey had been born today, perhaps the stupidest thing he could do was to call his theories a "religion" and to make it similar to christianity (have high priest, black mass, etc.)

Also read this:
Satanic Bible, INTRODUCTION by Burton H. Wolfe Wrote:Of course LaVey pointed out to anyone who would listen that the Devil to him and his
followers was not the stereotyped fellow cloaked in red garb, with horns, tail and pitchfork, but rather the dark forces in nature that human beings are just beginning to fathom. How did LaVey square that explanation with his own appearance at times in black cowl with horns? He replied: “People need ritual, with symbols such as those you find in baseball games or church services or wars, as vehicles for expending emotions they can’t release or even understand on their own.” Nevertheless, LaVey himself soon tired of the games.
So, in that time people needed "ritual" and "religions" because religion was popular. It was not as much "to mock religions" as to gain adepts by using same methods. So that reason fails.

Quote:Two, so that LaVey (while he lived) could adopt a guise similar to Manson (the musician), in fact, the two knew each other.
guise for what? sorry, I don't understand what exactly you mean. And I don't know many things about Marilyn Manson, sorry. I'm not a fan of his.

Quote:Finally, it's important, in fact, of paramount importance, to point out that I'm an atheist. You have to understand, if I ever learn that most Satanists actually believe in magical magic, I will no longer define myself as one. I of course do not consider LaVey to be any sort of god, but I have a lurking suspicion that orthodox LaVeyans are every bit as cracked as theists.

The fact is that most religions or religious groups (whether they call themselves religions or not) do show the "good things" (i.e. the bright part) to the newbies, while hiding the bad things, so that the newbie would be influenced to join the religion. And it is not an exception to show as the "good things" the things the newbie wants to hear, but miss in reality.

And know that when I said about LaVey to be a sort of god, I did not mean it literally (i.e. a supernatural person to whom one prays to). Many times I use the word "god" about people that are idolized, and regarded as of a superior nature or something - and in the introductions of the Satanic Bible, LaVey is in this way raised to a 'superior nature', as if he was a god or something. Similar to "the god of Metal" or "the gods of Metal" when referring to the 'fathers' of Metal (called by people that look at them as if they were of a superior nature, or something).

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Messages In This Thread
This is unexpected. - by R-e-n-n-a-t - May 9, 2011 at 9:32 pm
RE: This is unexpected. - by R-e-n-n-a-t - May 9, 2011 at 10:35 pm
RE: This is unexpected. - by theVOID - May 10, 2011 at 1:14 am
RE: This is unexpected. - by Sciencerob - May 10, 2011 at 1:21 am
RE: This is unexpected. - by theVOID - May 10, 2011 at 2:03 am
RE: This is unexpected. - by DeistPaladin - May 9, 2011 at 10:58 pm
RE: This is unexpected. - by Rhage - May 9, 2011 at 11:42 pm
RE: This is unexpected. - by A Dead Relative - May 10, 2011 at 12:06 am
RE: This is unexpected. - by Violet - May 10, 2011 at 1:12 am
RE: This is unexpected. - by Cinjin - May 10, 2011 at 1:50 am
RE: This is unexpected. - by Shell B - May 10, 2011 at 2:08 am
RE: This is unexpected. - by Cinjin - May 10, 2011 at 2:31 am
RE: This is unexpected. - by Zenith - May 17, 2011 at 10:57 am
RE: This is unexpected. - by R-e-n-n-a-t - May 10, 2011 at 10:29 am
RE: This is unexpected. - by A Dead Relative - May 12, 2011 at 7:27 pm
RE: This is unexpected. - by Gawdzilla - May 12, 2011 at 8:25 pm
RE: This is unexpected. - by Violet - May 13, 2011 at 4:00 am
RE: This is unexpected. - by Zenith - May 13, 2011 at 1:48 pm
RE: This is unexpected. - by ib.me.ub - May 13, 2011 at 1:59 pm
RE: This is unexpected. - by DeistPaladin - May 13, 2011 at 2:15 pm
RE: This is unexpected. - by ib.me.ub - May 13, 2011 at 2:58 pm
RE: This is unexpected. - by DeistPaladin - May 13, 2011 at 3:27 pm
RE: This is unexpected. - by ib.me.ub - May 14, 2011 at 12:40 am
RE: This is unexpected. - by DeistPaladin - May 15, 2011 at 1:40 pm
RE: This is unexpected. - by Zenith - May 13, 2011 at 5:57 pm
RE: This is unexpected. - by A Dead Relative - May 13, 2011 at 10:02 pm
RE: This is unexpected. - by downbeatplumb - May 17, 2011 at 12:13 pm
RE: This is unexpected. - by Zenith - May 17, 2011 at 12:17 pm
RE: This is unexpected. - by FadingW - May 13, 2011 at 11:21 pm
RE: This is unexpected. - by R-e-n-n-a-t - May 16, 2011 at 10:29 am
RE: This is unexpected. - by Zenith - May 17, 2011 at 12:06 pm
RE: This is unexpected. - by frankiej - May 16, 2011 at 11:06 am
RE: This is unexpected. - by R-e-n-n-a-t - May 20, 2011 at 10:48 am
RE: This is unexpected. - by Zenith - May 20, 2011 at 12:36 pm
RE: This is unexpected. - by R-e-n-n-a-t - May 25, 2011 at 10:56 am
RE: This is unexpected. - by Zenith - May 25, 2011 at 3:53 pm



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