Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: July 18, 2025, 7:14 am

Thread Rating:
  • 1 Vote(s) - 3 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Proverbs 16:4
#95
RE: Proverbs 16:4


Thank you kindly, appreciate it.
I will put what you said in quotes and then what the position is, you were close on some of it.
Quote: First means: The man is initially extremely wicked.

Total Depravity is not so much about man being wicked (even though he is), it has to do with man’s moral ability. His will and moral ability are wholly affected by sin. So if left to his own devices he is utterly incapable of responding to the gospel in a positive manner. He is dead in sin, and requires regeneration by the Holy Spirit before any spiritual life will be found.
Quote: Second means: God chose, most surely before the creation of the earth, all man which He would "save" (i.e. make Christians of the right doctrine), but that choice is based on nothing, it's only a random thing God did. The others go to hell.
This one is a little off. Yes, God chose whom he would grant saving grace to before the foundation of the world. However, it was not only those of a certain Christian doctrine, we believe he has sheep in the catholic church as well as the protestant church. All those whom he chose do come to and trust in Christ. This choice is unconditional in the fact that it is not based upon anything in man, or foreseen faith or actions. Though it I would not say it is random, it is according to the kind intention of His will and His purpose (Ephesians 1-2).
Quote: Third means: If you are one of those elected (or, chosen) by God before the Creation of the world, then you will finally convert to the right Christian doctrine (Reformed Christian, or something similar to that), and finally go to heaven.
I think you are referring to the “I” here and not the “L”. The “L” represents the belief that Chris atoned for the sins of God’s elect on the cross and this atonement was perfect in intention and merit. He did not waste any atonement on those who would not be saved. The “I” represents the fact that God’s grace is powerful enough to overcome even the most depraved individual, He never fails in saving. Neither of these things has to do with a “right” Christian doctrine though.
Quote: Fourth means, if I am not wrong: After you have been converted to the right Christian doctrine, you persevere in a holy life.
Again, close but not only those believing a certain doctrine. Pretty much God’s grace helps believers persevere until the end, so all of those whom He elected die as believers.
Thanks for letting me respond!
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Proverbs 16:4 - by Skipper - May 18, 2011 at 11:15 am
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Kayenneh - May 18, 2011 at 12:22 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Skipper - May 18, 2011 at 1:22 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by everythingafter - May 18, 2011 at 12:31 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Ace Otana - May 18, 2011 at 12:46 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by everythingafter - May 18, 2011 at 12:53 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by DeistPaladin - May 18, 2011 at 1:16 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Strongbad - May 18, 2011 at 1:19 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Doubting Thomas - May 18, 2011 at 1:27 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Nimzo - May 18, 2011 at 1:41 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Angrboda - May 19, 2011 at 1:22 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Skipper - May 18, 2011 at 1:45 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Nimzo - May 18, 2011 at 2:00 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Skipper - May 18, 2011 at 2:09 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Nimzo - May 18, 2011 at 2:23 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Minimalist - May 18, 2011 at 2:12 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Doubting Thomas - May 18, 2011 at 2:57 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Nimzo - May 18, 2011 at 5:43 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Faith No More - May 18, 2011 at 6:11 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Nimzo - May 18, 2011 at 6:16 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Faith No More - May 18, 2011 at 6:26 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Nimzo - May 18, 2011 at 6:28 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Faith No More - May 18, 2011 at 6:42 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Nimzo - May 19, 2011 at 6:15 am
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Faith No More - May 19, 2011 at 6:35 am
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Nimzo - May 19, 2011 at 7:52 am
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Strongbad - May 19, 2011 at 2:47 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Faith No More - May 19, 2011 at 3:31 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Nimzo - May 19, 2011 at 4:01 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by prayforme - May 20, 2011 at 3:48 am
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Faith No More - May 20, 2011 at 10:15 am
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Kayenneh - May 18, 2011 at 3:10 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by reverendjeremiah - May 18, 2011 at 7:12 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Statler Waldorf - May 18, 2011 at 8:36 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by padraic - May 18, 2011 at 8:46 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by RDK - May 18, 2011 at 9:06 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Eudaimonia - May 18, 2011 at 11:16 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Minimalist - May 18, 2011 at 11:55 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Statler Waldorf - May 19, 2011 at 5:41 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Darwinian - May 19, 2011 at 5:49 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Godschild - May 19, 2011 at 1:23 am
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Minimalist - May 19, 2011 at 3:07 am
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by padraic - May 19, 2011 at 3:15 am
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Statler Waldorf - May 19, 2011 at 5:57 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by RDK - May 19, 2011 at 12:15 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Minimalist - May 19, 2011 at 12:22 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Doubting Thomas - May 19, 2011 at 1:28 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by everythingafter - May 19, 2011 at 6:42 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Statler Waldorf - May 19, 2011 at 7:00 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by everythingafter - May 20, 2011 at 2:28 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Statler Waldorf - May 20, 2011 at 3:18 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by everythingafter - May 20, 2011 at 3:48 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Statler Waldorf - May 20, 2011 at 3:53 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by everythingafter - May 20, 2011 at 8:00 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Zenith - May 21, 2011 at 7:40 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Minimalist - May 19, 2011 at 1:47 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Kayenneh - May 19, 2011 at 2:17 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by tackattack - May 19, 2011 at 7:12 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Minimalist - May 19, 2011 at 10:01 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by tackattack - May 20, 2011 at 3:02 am
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by tackattack - May 20, 2011 at 5:06 am
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by fr0d0 - May 20, 2011 at 5:44 am
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by prayforme - May 20, 2011 at 3:47 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Zenith - May 20, 2011 at 7:47 am
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by tackattack - May 20, 2011 at 8:16 am
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Zenith - May 21, 2011 at 5:07 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Ace Otana - May 20, 2011 at 2:39 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Doubting Thomas - May 20, 2011 at 3:48 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Doubting Thomas - May 20, 2011 at 4:51 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Statler Waldorf - May 20, 2011 at 5:09 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Minimalist - May 20, 2011 at 5:54 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Statler Waldorf - May 20, 2011 at 5:57 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Doubting Thomas - May 20, 2011 at 6:22 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Statler Waldorf - May 20, 2011 at 6:45 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Minimalist - May 20, 2011 at 7:22 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Doubting Thomas - May 20, 2011 at 11:54 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by JohnDG - May 21, 2011 at 4:08 am
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Zenith - May 21, 2011 at 8:29 am
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Ace Otana - May 21, 2011 at 8:34 am
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Zenith - May 21, 2011 at 4:32 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by RDK - May 21, 2011 at 4:47 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by RDK - May 21, 2011 at 10:12 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Cinjin - May 22, 2011 at 4:25 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by bbrettle - May 22, 2011 at 7:58 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by fr0d0 - May 22, 2011 at 8:04 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by bbrettle - May 23, 2011 at 1:22 am
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by fr0d0 - May 23, 2011 at 7:41 am
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Doubting Thomas - May 23, 2011 at 12:59 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by everythingafter - May 23, 2011 at 5:25 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Zenith - May 25, 2011 at 4:52 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Statler Waldorf - May 25, 2011 at 6:17 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Zenith - May 25, 2011 at 6:58 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Minimalist - May 23, 2011 at 6:37 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Statler Waldorf - May 24, 2011 at 6:41 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Statler Waldorf - May 25, 2011 at 7:45 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Zenith - June 4, 2011 at 8:52 am
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Anymouse - May 25, 2011 at 7:54 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Zenith - May 26, 2011 at 11:37 am
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by everythingafter - May 26, 2011 at 4:32 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Zenith - May 29, 2011 at 8:59 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Statler Waldorf - May 26, 2011 at 6:55 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Statler Waldorf - June 6, 2011 at 9:21 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Zenith - June 8, 2011 at 6:17 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Statler Waldorf - June 8, 2011 at 6:28 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Zenith - June 8, 2011 at 6:32 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Statler Waldorf - June 8, 2011 at 6:35 pm
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by Zenith - June 9, 2011 at 6:53 am
RE: Proverbs 16:4 - by tackattack - June 9, 2011 at 7:06 am



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)