(May 24, 2011 at 8:08 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote: As to your second point, maybe we are just missing each other on this one. When I say rational I mean having the ability to exercise reason, which is something animals and natural events do not possess. So my question is where did this ability come from? It seems that a person’s ability to discern truth is unrelated to survivability, so I do not believe Darwinian processes could explain how the rational mind arose. Any thoughts?
examples of animals using reason.
http://www.cell.com/current-biology/abst...09)01455-9
Quote:In Aesop's fable The Crow and the Pitcher, a thirsty crow uses stones to raise the level of water in a pitcher and quench its thirst. A number of corvids have been found to use tools in the wild [1,2,3,4], and New Caledonian crows appear to understand the functional properties of tools and solve complex physical problems via causal and analogical reasoning [5,6,7,8,9,10,11]. The rook, another member of the corvid family that does not appear to use tools in the wild, also appears able to solve non-tool-related problems via similar reasoning [12]. Here, we present evidence that captive rooks are also able to solve a complex problem by using tools. We presented four captive rooks with a problem analogous to Aesop's fable: raising the level of water so that a floating worm moved into reach. All four subjects solved the problem with an appreciation of precisely how many stones were needed. Three subjects also rapidly learned to use large stones over small ones, and that sawdust cannot be manipulated in the same manner as water. This behavior demonstrates a flexible ability to use tools, a finding with implications for the evolution of tool use and cognition in animals.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Cp7_In7f88
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-euMlL9O1Kc
you also state that a persons ability to discern truth is unrelated to survivability.
This is a positive claim and needs explaining.
why isnt it a survival trait to ascertain truth?
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.