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13 Questions
#70
RE: 13 Questions
(May 24, 2011 at 8:08 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote: As to your second point, maybe we are just missing each other on this one. When I say rational I mean having the ability to exercise reason, which is something animals and natural events do not possess. So my question is where did this ability come from? It seems that a person’s ability to discern truth is unrelated to survivability, so I do not believe Darwinian processes could explain how the rational mind arose. Any thoughts?

examples of animals using reason.

http://www.cell.com/current-biology/abst...09)01455-9

Quote:In Aesop's fable The Crow and the Pitcher, a thirsty crow uses stones to raise the level of water in a pitcher and quench its thirst. A number of corvids have been found to use tools in the wild [1,2,3,4], and New Caledonian crows appear to understand the functional properties of tools and solve complex physical problems via causal and analogical reasoning [5,6,7,8,9,10,11]. The rook, another member of the corvid family that does not appear to use tools in the wild, also appears able to solve non-tool-related problems via similar reasoning [12]. Here, we present evidence that captive rooks are also able to solve a complex problem by using tools. We presented four captive rooks with a problem analogous to Aesop's fable: raising the level of water so that a floating worm moved into reach. All four subjects solved the problem with an appreciation of precisely how many stones were needed. Three subjects also rapidly learned to use large stones over small ones, and that sawdust cannot be manipulated in the same manner as water. This behavior demonstrates a flexible ability to use tools, a finding with implications for the evolution of tool use and cognition in animals.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Cp7_In7f88

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-euMlL9O1Kc

you also state that a persons ability to discern truth is unrelated to survivability.
This is a positive claim and needs explaining.
why isnt it a survival trait to ascertain truth?





You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.

Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.




 








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Messages In This Thread
13 Questions - by Statler Waldorf - May 10, 2011 at 7:47 pm
RE: 13 Questions - by SleepingDemon - May 10, 2011 at 9:54 pm
RE: 13 Questions - by Statler Waldorf - May 10, 2011 at 11:16 pm
RE: 13 Questions - by Eudaimonia - May 11, 2011 at 12:04 am
RE: 13 Questions - by SleepingDemon - May 11, 2011 at 12:15 am
RE: 13 Questions - by Eudaimonia - May 11, 2011 at 5:31 am
RE: 13 Questions - by Whirling Moat - May 11, 2011 at 12:53 am
RE: 13 Questions - by Shell B - May 11, 2011 at 1:33 am
RE: 13 Questions - by Faith No More - May 11, 2011 at 3:44 am
RE: 13 Questions - by Violet - May 11, 2011 at 3:58 am
RE: 13 Questions - by tackattack - May 11, 2011 at 7:10 am
RE: 13 Questions - by Doubting Thomas - May 11, 2011 at 10:11 am
RE: 13 Questions - by tesseract7d - May 11, 2011 at 11:02 am
RE: 13 Questions - by everythingafter - May 11, 2011 at 11:31 am
RE: 13 Questions - by R-e-n-n-a-t - May 11, 2011 at 1:01 pm
RE: 13 Questions - by Tiberius - May 11, 2011 at 1:39 pm
RE: 13 Questions - by Girlysprite - May 11, 2011 at 2:42 pm
RE: 13 Questions - by Doubting Thomas - May 11, 2011 at 3:02 pm
RE: 13 Questions - by prayforme - May 11, 2011 at 7:07 pm
RE: 13 Questions - by simplychris - May 11, 2011 at 7:17 pm
RE: 13 Questions - by Gawdzilla - May 11, 2011 at 7:35 pm
RE: 13 Questions - by Girlysprite - May 12, 2011 at 1:24 am
RE: 13 Questions - by Cinjin - May 12, 2011 at 1:40 am
RE: 13 Questions - by Statler Waldorf - May 12, 2011 at 2:03 am
RE: 13 Questions - by Doubting Thomas - May 12, 2011 at 12:19 pm
RE: 13 Questions - by Statler Waldorf - May 17, 2011 at 7:52 pm
RE: 13 Questions - by Strongbad - May 12, 2011 at 1:12 pm
RE: 13 Questions - by SleepingDemon - May 12, 2011 at 2:05 pm
RE: 13 Questions - by Doubting Thomas - May 12, 2011 at 2:13 pm
RE: 13 Questions - by SleepingDemon - May 12, 2011 at 2:41 pm
RE: 13 Questions - by reverendjeremiah - May 17, 2011 at 10:02 pm
RE: 13 Questions - by Rev. Rye - May 18, 2011 at 12:14 am
RE: 13 Questions - by Angrboda - May 20, 2011 at 1:16 am
RE: 13 Questions - by Cinjin - May 20, 2011 at 3:13 am
RE: 13 Questions - by Zen Badger - May 20, 2011 at 5:46 am
RE: 13 Questions - by Statler Waldorf - May 20, 2011 at 2:40 pm
RE: 13 Questions - by Cinjin - May 20, 2011 at 4:19 pm
RE: 13 Questions - by Statler Waldorf - May 20, 2011 at 4:30 pm
RE: 13 Questions - by Cinjin - May 20, 2011 at 6:46 pm
RE: 13 Questions - by Angrboda - May 21, 2011 at 12:03 am
RE: 13 Questions - by Anomalocaris - May 20, 2011 at 7:43 pm
RE: 13 Questions - by Zen Badger - May 21, 2011 at 7:40 pm
RE: 13 Questions - by LastPoet - May 20, 2011 at 10:23 am
RE: 13 Questions - by Darwinian - May 20, 2011 at 4:48 pm
RE: 13 Questions - by Anomalocaris - May 21, 2011 at 4:50 am
RE: 13 Questions - by Wombosi - May 21, 2011 at 5:44 am
RE: 13 Questions - by Mong - May 21, 2011 at 5:30 pm
RE: 13 Questions - by Arcturus - May 22, 2011 at 1:23 am
RE: 13 Questions - by downbeatplumb - May 22, 2011 at 8:02 am
RE: 13 Questions - by Cinjin - May 22, 2011 at 4:42 pm
RE: 13 Questions - by Mong - May 22, 2011 at 5:22 pm
RE: 13 Questions - by reverendjeremiah - May 22, 2011 at 5:31 pm
RE: 13 Questions - by downbeatplumb - May 23, 2011 at 8:53 am
RE: 13 Questions - by Tiberius - May 23, 2011 at 9:48 pm
RE: 13 Questions - by Statler Waldorf - May 23, 2011 at 8:38 pm
RE: 13 Questions - by reverendjeremiah - May 24, 2011 at 7:56 pm
RE: 13 Questions - by Angrboda - May 24, 2011 at 9:22 pm
RE: 13 Questions - by Welsh cake - May 23, 2011 at 10:37 pm
RE: 13 Questions - by Statler Waldorf - May 24, 2011 at 1:50 pm
RE: 13 Questions - by TheDarkestOfAngels - May 24, 2011 at 7:44 pm
RE: 13 Questions - by Statler Waldorf - May 24, 2011 at 8:08 pm
RE: 13 Questions - by reverendjeremiah - May 24, 2011 at 9:32 pm
RE: 13 Questions - by downbeatplumb - May 26, 2011 at 1:05 pm
RE: 13 Questions - by TheDarkestOfAngels - May 24, 2011 at 8:23 pm
RE: 13 Questions - by TheDarkestOfAngels - May 24, 2011 at 2:51 am
RE: 13 Questions - by Statler Waldorf - May 25, 2011 at 8:34 pm
RE: 13 Questions - by TheDarkestOfAngels - May 25, 2011 at 10:52 pm
RE: 13 Questions - by Angrboda - May 25, 2011 at 11:43 pm
RE: 13 Questions - by Anomalocaris - May 26, 2011 at 1:39 am
RE: 13 Questions - by Anymouse - May 25, 2011 at 9:52 pm
RE: 13 Questions - by Statler Waldorf - May 26, 2011 at 6:49 pm
RE: 13 Questions - by Anymouse - May 30, 2011 at 6:21 pm
RE: 13 Questions - by tavarish - May 27, 2011 at 5:15 am
RE: 13 Questions - by Girlysprite - May 28, 2011 at 5:18 pm
RE: 13 Questions - by reverendjeremiah - May 29, 2011 at 10:39 am
RE: 13 Questions - by Angrboda - May 31, 2011 at 7:05 pm
RE: 13 Questions - by DoktorZ - May 28, 2011 at 6:16 pm
RE: 13 Questions - by Angrboda - May 29, 2011 at 7:11 pm
RE: 13 Questions - by downbeatplumb - May 31, 2011 at 3:14 pm
RE: 13 Questions - by downbeatplumb - May 29, 2011 at 8:18 am
RE: 13 Questions - by Statler Waldorf - June 2, 2011 at 12:51 am
RE: 13 Questions - by Anymouse - June 6, 2011 at 5:07 am
RE: 13 Questions - by Anomalocaris - May 30, 2011 at 2:39 pm
RE: 13 Questions - by tackattack - June 1, 2011 at 6:20 am
RE: 13 Questions - by Violet - June 6, 2011 at 5:08 am
RE: 13 Questions - by tackattack - June 2, 2011 at 2:03 am
RE: 13 Questions - by Girlysprite - June 2, 2011 at 3:00 am
RE: 13 Questions - by Statler Waldorf - June 2, 2011 at 7:03 pm
RE: 13 Questions - by Zen Badger - June 3, 2011 at 7:21 am
RE: 13 Questions - by downbeatplumb - June 3, 2011 at 2:40 pm
RE: 13 Questions - by Statler Waldorf - June 3, 2011 at 6:59 pm
RE: 13 Questions - by downbeatplumb - June 6, 2011 at 2:21 pm
RE: 13 Questions - by Statler Waldorf - June 6, 2011 at 8:05 pm
RE: 13 Questions - by downbeatplumb - June 2, 2011 at 6:05 am
RE: 13 Questions - by Angrboda - June 6, 2011 at 4:51 am

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