(November 3, 2016 at 3:22 am)robvalue Wrote: You think scientists don't predict the weather? You're saying they get it right all the time? Of course they attempt to predict it. That's the whole point of science. Totally accurate predictions (foreknowledge) would require total knowledge of reality.
So God knows what the final outcome of my actions will be, after taking into account whether he screws with me or not, or anyone else screws with me or not. Even if he knew that theoretically it would be something else but would be changed, he still knows the overall result. Beforehand.
So I cannot end up doing anything escept this result, in the end. Can I? If I can, then he doesn't know the end result. So basically, I'm free to try to alter this result, but I will fail.
I'm not saying that the scientist get it right all the time due to some missing information. But, suppose scientist does have all the information, then he can know exactly what would be the weather without causing the weather, correct? The more it goes with God Whom indeed knows all information, as He is Omniscient. So, your objection that my analogy is wrong is in turn incorrect. For, part of what is partly different in my analogy of scientist and God is that God has perfect knowledge, while scientist do not, and what is partly the same in my analogy which is still correct per our exchange is that both the scientist knows the weather and God knows our actions while both doesn't cause the weather and our actions respectively, and every analogy has a necessary property of comparing two things which are both partly the same, partly different. Otherwise, it will not be an analogy.
Yes, God knows everything beforehand. A scientist who have gotten all the relevant information would know what will happen beforehand. But, again, both will NOT cause the end result. Again, if we will examine your reasoning, your hidden premise is that whoever knows is also the one who causes. But that hidden premise is not true. For, if I know that you are an atheist, does I caused your atheism? And if I know that you may be a believer in the future, does it cause your change of being a believer? No, right? So, concluding absurdity from God's omniscience and the reality of freewill is just concluding from a false hidden premise.
Now, your third point can be answered easily too. Your third point is that if you change your mind and therefore changing the end result, it follows that God doesn't know the new end result. Suppose you have two actions: A and B. Suppose too I know again your thoughts and decision. So, I know that you are going to do A now. Now, aside from knowing your thoughts and decision, I also know the effects of every cause. So, I know that if you do A, then I know that the result is C. If you do B, the result is D. Now, you try to change your mind from doing A and instead you now want to do B. Does it follow that I don't know that end result? Of course not! I have just said that I know that if A, then I know that it will be an end result of C, and if B, then D. But, God both knows our though and will and knows every consequence of His creation. So, this third point of yours doesn't prove the contradiction between God's omniscience and the reality of our freewill.
Let me try to guess your next objection. You may ask, what exactly be the end result? Is it either C or D? If I answer that God can't know that, then He is not really all-knowing. But, you'll say that it is impossible to know the exact end result given the changing of your thoughts and decision due to the reality of freewill. Hence, if freewill is true, then God will not know the exact end result.
However, that will not work. We need to take note that being all-knowing is to know what is all that is correct and therefore it is impossible for an all-knowing to know what is incorrect. After all, if we are incorrect of thinking something, then we really don't know it. Now, asking God what would be the exact end result which includes the exact result of what will be done by beings whom have freewill is to force God to commit mistake. But, God is all-knowing and therefore cannot commit mistake. Therefore, unable to know the exact result of what will be done by beings whom have freewill is not against omniscience. After all, God's revelation includes warning, for He knows the exact result based on what we are actually willing and doing. So, I think atheists got it all wrong here regarding the apparent contradiction between omniscience and the reality of freewill.
