(November 13, 2016 at 3:32 pm)Edward John Wrote:(November 13, 2016 at 2:55 pm)pocaracas Wrote: Excuse me... I'm going to quote you, but will remove all font formatting.
Edit: Damn... that's a big ass wall of text... hiding it all away!
Evidence... any.
Philosophical arguments... none.
If we are talking about evidence, it will talk for itself, no need to be open to it.
I want to find reality... if that encompasses a god, then so be it.
Meh...
Are you absolutely sure you exist?
Sure...
It's also possible that there is a Leprechaun, a Fairy, A Loch Ness Monster, a Chupacabra, a Bigfoot, a Thor, a Pegasus, a Cyclops, warp drive, the Force, Magic, A thinking planet as in Solaris, a portal to a hellish realm like in Doom, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc...
Where should we draw the line, when we want to be intellectually honest about reality?
No.
But I think you're heading to present this the wrong way...
Usually, you'd go First, evidence, then conclusion.
But you're wanting to do, first conclusion, then evidence that ignorantly explains conclusion...
LOL!
Did you really go there?!
Do you think we're that shallow? (I'm not saying there may not be some people out there that would use that "reasoning", but not any honest atheist... unless we're just having some fun with the believers' incredible gulibility)
What?!
What motives?
Of course there's something I love more than god... god is, as far as I can tell, a figment of humanity's imagination.
Sure, some people to fall in love with fictional entities... all the time... Remember Seven of Nine, from Star Trek Voyager? How many geeks fell for her?
But no... it's not anything like the love you can have for a real person... a real soul mate.
That religion has convinced humanity that it can love a fictional entity as much, or even more, than any other fellow human, is a testament of how deluded the believers really are.
You are being stupid on purpose, aren't you?
When one says "we can't see", you should interpret it to mean "see" in the broader sense... and in "can't sense". No sensory apparatus can be employed to sense any god.
All other examples can be sensed, even if one has to resort to artificial sensory extensions, such as X-Ray cameras.
Neat example...
For a living individual of any species to exist, it needs to have had ancestors... I didn't count how many you put there, but I guess around 20... 20 generations, at an average of 20 years per generation, gives us 400 years.... so in the 1600's, I'd have to have had such a grand^20-father. Humans didn't crop out of the mud back then...
AH... you got it!
How did I miss it?
How do you know any of this?!
Where did this information come from?
How was it provided to you?
Sure I can touch my brain... I can't say I'd live for much longer after that... but I can.
Open brain surgery, with the patient awake, is commonly performed, you know?
Words are wind. (Game of Thrones)
Just because someone uttered some words, 2000 years ago, it doesn't mean that that person was hearing any god.
Hearing hallucinations are perhaps more common than visual hallucinations...
I hope to get cremated, after having whatever organs that still work properly donated to people who need them.... if there is still such a need, by then...
Are you seriously wanting to employ Pascal's Wager? Dude, grow up.
My bet is on what I perceive to be reality.
If god is just, then he will understand... I lose nothing.
If god is unfair, then it is not your god, and not worth any praise... you'd also lose in this case... so, in comparison, I lose nothing. And I keep my intellectual honesty!
No, he's not.
Big Bang, the singularity is the explanation.
No, he's not.
First, what some people have claimed to be such a fine tuning, has turned out not to be quite so...
Second, if we were not in a position to be alive, we wouldn't even exist, so que question of god wouldn't even be placed. Any Universe which can bring about conscious entities will bring about that question of tuning... Talk about a puddle finding it's perfectly fitted to the hole in the ground.
No, he's not.
Evolution of social species is. Clearly visible in many other animal social species.
Wow... a 2 in 1!
Which historical facts concerning Jesus of Nazareth? Care to share?
How can that god be personally known and experienced? Care to share?
Your ignorance is showing...
I suggest you read something before we continue:
Wiki article on the Solar system: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_System
Wiki article on the Universe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universe
Wiki article on the Big Bang: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang
When you know the sequence of events from Big bang to solar system, we can talk... I'm not going to educate you on that...
The Universe, and the second law of thermodynamics, came about at the singularity called "big bang".
What was before, if anything, if "before" makes sense, we know not. Whatever it was, it probably breaks the known laws of thermodynamics.
Caveat: Life, as we know it...
But we don't know what life was like when it debuted on this planet.
What exploded?
Oh yeah... you hadn't read the article on the Big Bang.... go read that... Hint, the Big Bang is NOT an explosion.
Any AI scientist begs to differ.
Would you also agree that just because we cannot see The Force with our eyes does not necessarily mean it doesn't exist?
Would you also agree that just because we cannot see Magic with our eyes does not necessarily mean it doesn't exist?
Would you also agree that just because we cannot see a Cyclops with our eyes does not necessarily mean it doesn't exist?
etc.etc.etc.etc.etc.etc.etc...
Flawed argument is flawed!
huh?!
Are you daft?!
Are you wanting to tell me that if I can conceive of a super-being, then that being just exists?!
Can you not discern what's in your mind from what is outside your mind?
I feel like I've wasted my time...
Still wainting for that "evidence" you speak of...
Willing, of course... always have, always will.
Haven't seen any yet, though.
What?! survive what? I've been surviving very well for over 30 years and no faith to be mentioned... And I'm aware of many other people in a similar situation.... many have lived long and fulfilling lives... and no need to survive any "demonic onslaught"
You know what faith does to your brain?
You know how psychologically vulnerble you are to self-delusion?
No, of course you don't.... you live in fairy-tale land...
When you wake up from that fairy-tale, you'll see it for what it is.. if you ever wake up... I sense you are way too far into it.
You think you're the first idiot to think of this?
What if this god appeared in all its glory to all of mankind at the same time (with some shifts in time, so as to not disturb the sleeping folk that live in different time-zones)? How would this be a hallucination, then?
But does this happen?
Ah... no... it seems that is beyond it's power or wish... Of course, the simplest reason is that such a being doesn't exist.
No...
The religious elite is looking for people who will trust it, obey it and most importantly love it.
Can you tell the difference from what you said?
Big bang didn't happen.
We didn't evolve.
Evolutions false there's no evidence, except some bones.
Philosophical arguments proves God.
Re-thinking evolution....
If a fair maiden kisses a frog which instantly changes into a handsome prince we would call it a fairy tale. But if the frog takes 40 million years to turn into a prince we call it evolution.
Time is the evolutionist's magic wand.
Fairy tales come in many forms!
Well then...
Have fun with that tantrum, kid.
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