(November 17, 2016 at 8:00 am)Alasdair Ham Wrote:(November 17, 2016 at 5:11 am)Ignorant Wrote: Are you now asking me how would we otherwise arrive at the knowledge that there is indeed a creator?
Yes. Because step 1 is knowledge. Even though I care about the truth, and even if a god exists I'd care about that truth, I can't care about a truth I have no knowledge of. To say the OP should care because they should care about the truth doesn't work because "ought" implies "can". It makes no sense to say that someone ought to care about the truth if they cannot care about it. To care about it first they must have awareness of it.
I have actually tried to be careful about using the word "should" or "ought". I try to avoid them. I think I used "should" one or two posts in reference to the OP, trying to meet it on its own terms. I don't think you will find me saying that anyone should care. I typically try to avoid telling people what they should do. I have been trying, instead, to begin with something much more basic: if there is a real relation which exists between you and god, the nature of that relation itself will either cause you to care/value/derive meaning from it, or not.
Even though the OP is phrased in the "should" form, I understood the underlying question really to be: "If there is a creator, is there a meaningful relationship between god and me?"
In fact, Rob wrote: "So if I let your arguments stand, and there is a creator, can you tell me what difference it should make to me?"
In other words: "If there is a creator, what significance does that have for my own life?"
I fully recognize that even with knowledge of the relationship exists between god and everything else, it will not be significant to some people.
It isn't that I think people "should" care. They are adults, and they will do as the judge best. I do, however, find the nature of the relationship between god and everything else highly meaningful and a real aspect of my approaching a full life. I want others to experience similar amounts of fulfillment, and so I try to paint a good picture with the tools I have. As you can tell, I often struggle.
The OP itself grants step 1 for the sake of the question, so if you are more interested in step 1, I'd ask you to look at this thread first. Then we can talk about it in a different thread if you'd like.