RE: An Inconvenient Question(s)
June 16, 2011 at 1:12 am
(This post was last modified: June 16, 2011 at 1:53 am by ruhollah.)
1. Wasn't the Quran a cobbled-together combination of plagarisms from the Torah and Bible, sayings of Muhhamad, and assorted drivel that was made after the illiterate founders death?
If you take any course in comparative religion, you'll find there are a fair amount of subtle differences between these books. The belief is all these books (and many other books/messages/scriptures that were lost or destroyed) are from God and therefore would have the same stories. However the belief is that because the original bible and Torah were lost, their messages were manipulated as the centuries past by and therefore wouldn't have same stories that are in the Quran.
2. Wasn't over half the material that was proposed to be in the Quran rejected?
What do you mean material? Whenever the prophet began with "bismellah" it was considered a message coming from God and many many people started to either record what was coming from his mouth or memorized the message. In the end all these messages were compiled thoroughly into a book known as the quran. In fact every time these messages were coming to him, they would come at suitable time. The first few verses were to introduced the idea of a higher being, and than as the years go by when war happens new verses would come to him to handle that situation. And then near the end of the prophet's life, verses come out discussing the dangers or riba (i.e interest based monetary system under fiat currency).
3. Aren't sexism, stoning, and intolerance still thriving in Muslim countries?
Maybe in countries where they are suffering from years of war and chaos and the general public are uneducated. But this kind of stuff happens in any country regardless what the national religion is. Some times the priest, rabbis or imams themselves are afraid and would say things to please the status quo, or some of them are insane and get a high from creating chaos. The thing is that evil happens everywhere. I can point out all the negative stuff in the western country such as teenage moms killing their illegitimate live babies so they can get on with there life and find another man (http://www.news10.net/news/local/story.a...yid=122241) Or young couples kill their second born because they can't afford it (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...child.html). Evil happens everywhere, it doesn't discriminate.
4. Aren't terrorists following the "word of allah" in waging "holy war/jihad" against anybody who is not a Muslim?
No, and this statement you are making shows you haven't read anything about Islam nor have you consulted with an Imam. This whole terrorist thing is extremism out of chaos, people get into it because of wars, rampant crime, hyperinflation,...etc.
5. Why the theoretical hell aren't we allowed to "make graven images" of Muhhamad? He was just an ordinary man, right?
Some times a graven image will be used to worship the prophet himself and not God. Also images can be used to mislead or discourage people from this religion. For example in Christianity, they view Jesus as a white man with long blond hair and say that he was God in human form. For a black man looking at this, wouldn't he be questioning why did God chose to come to earth as a white man and not as a black man? These kind of questions will lead the black man to avoid the religion all together.
6. Why do Muslims invoke the "Pretty...poetry..." argument when making a case for the Quran/Islam?
Look the message of the Quran is the most important thing. It basically has a set of moral rules that will lead you to have peace with yourself and with others. Do you have any concerns about today's society? Maybe in another thread you can list what are your concerns are and we can explain how the Quran addresses these issues. I gave two examples above. Today's financial system is absolutely fraudulent and totally against the teachings of Islam. Even the so-called Muslim nations are using these systems because the rest of the world is. Also when everyone is in heavy financial situations you have people either killing their children or killing themselves because they can't afford the debt. I can address all these issues some time in another thread.
7. Wasn't Muhhamad close friends with a docter that may have provided some of the "super-duper, ultra, ultimate,supreme, devestating, magnificent, amazing, high-tech, state-of-the-art, and just plain worshipful" scientific information?
I'm not sure where you got this information, I'm interested to know more about this doctor. Look people say a lot of stuff, they say Moses was high on a DHT trip and that is how he gave out the commands. The thing is, these kinds of theories are made to probably distract people especially in religious communities. Most religious people just want to live a peaceful life and want to contribute to a real economy where people respect one another.
8. Don't Muslims mutilate their children's reproductive organs and sow up their female babie's...er...private...parts.
???? Are you talking about circumcision? It's only for males, not for females.... It's benefit is to prevent disease and/or infection.
9. Why isn't there any argument for Islam that I have as of yet heard of except for the Quran?
????
10. And, finally, can anyone explain the mass riots...er...protests, death threats and bounties, and some minor propery destruction when a Dutch cartoonist dared to...make a few cartoons that actually, GASP,...showed a picture of an Arabian man, presumably Muhhamad. Very, very openminded and tolerant there.
Here is the thing, you have the western nations invading Iraq for no reason, killing or injuring more that a million civilians (most of them Muslims) and on top of this, a cartoonist further takes the stereotype to the extreme and insults the prophet himself where a billion Muslims consider him as role model. If you don't add insult to injury, people won't go crazy.
Hey Min
There has been a lot of protesting by Muslim nations. I gave examples in the past that Iran was fighting the Taliban and Al Qeada long before US came into Afghanistan. What do you think all the protesting that is going on right now is for? People want to get rid of Draconian governments so people live peacefully and extremism can be eliminated for good.
If you take any course in comparative religion, you'll find there are a fair amount of subtle differences between these books. The belief is all these books (and many other books/messages/scriptures that were lost or destroyed) are from God and therefore would have the same stories. However the belief is that because the original bible and Torah were lost, their messages were manipulated as the centuries past by and therefore wouldn't have same stories that are in the Quran.
2. Wasn't over half the material that was proposed to be in the Quran rejected?
What do you mean material? Whenever the prophet began with "bismellah" it was considered a message coming from God and many many people started to either record what was coming from his mouth or memorized the message. In the end all these messages were compiled thoroughly into a book known as the quran. In fact every time these messages were coming to him, they would come at suitable time. The first few verses were to introduced the idea of a higher being, and than as the years go by when war happens new verses would come to him to handle that situation. And then near the end of the prophet's life, verses come out discussing the dangers or riba (i.e interest based monetary system under fiat currency).
3. Aren't sexism, stoning, and intolerance still thriving in Muslim countries?
Maybe in countries where they are suffering from years of war and chaos and the general public are uneducated. But this kind of stuff happens in any country regardless what the national religion is. Some times the priest, rabbis or imams themselves are afraid and would say things to please the status quo, or some of them are insane and get a high from creating chaos. The thing is that evil happens everywhere. I can point out all the negative stuff in the western country such as teenage moms killing their illegitimate live babies so they can get on with there life and find another man (http://www.news10.net/news/local/story.a...yid=122241) Or young couples kill their second born because they can't afford it (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...child.html). Evil happens everywhere, it doesn't discriminate.
4. Aren't terrorists following the "word of allah" in waging "holy war/jihad" against anybody who is not a Muslim?
No, and this statement you are making shows you haven't read anything about Islam nor have you consulted with an Imam. This whole terrorist thing is extremism out of chaos, people get into it because of wars, rampant crime, hyperinflation,...etc.
5. Why the theoretical hell aren't we allowed to "make graven images" of Muhhamad? He was just an ordinary man, right?
Some times a graven image will be used to worship the prophet himself and not God. Also images can be used to mislead or discourage people from this religion. For example in Christianity, they view Jesus as a white man with long blond hair and say that he was God in human form. For a black man looking at this, wouldn't he be questioning why did God chose to come to earth as a white man and not as a black man? These kind of questions will lead the black man to avoid the religion all together.
6. Why do Muslims invoke the "Pretty...poetry..." argument when making a case for the Quran/Islam?
Look the message of the Quran is the most important thing. It basically has a set of moral rules that will lead you to have peace with yourself and with others. Do you have any concerns about today's society? Maybe in another thread you can list what are your concerns are and we can explain how the Quran addresses these issues. I gave two examples above. Today's financial system is absolutely fraudulent and totally against the teachings of Islam. Even the so-called Muslim nations are using these systems because the rest of the world is. Also when everyone is in heavy financial situations you have people either killing their children or killing themselves because they can't afford the debt. I can address all these issues some time in another thread.
7. Wasn't Muhhamad close friends with a docter that may have provided some of the "super-duper, ultra, ultimate,supreme, devestating, magnificent, amazing, high-tech, state-of-the-art, and just plain worshipful" scientific information?
I'm not sure where you got this information, I'm interested to know more about this doctor. Look people say a lot of stuff, they say Moses was high on a DHT trip and that is how he gave out the commands. The thing is, these kinds of theories are made to probably distract people especially in religious communities. Most religious people just want to live a peaceful life and want to contribute to a real economy where people respect one another.
8. Don't Muslims mutilate their children's reproductive organs and sow up their female babie's...er...private...parts.
???? Are you talking about circumcision? It's only for males, not for females.... It's benefit is to prevent disease and/or infection.
9. Why isn't there any argument for Islam that I have as of yet heard of except for the Quran?
????
10. And, finally, can anyone explain the mass riots...er...protests, death threats and bounties, and some minor propery destruction when a Dutch cartoonist dared to...make a few cartoons that actually, GASP,...showed a picture of an Arabian man, presumably Muhhamad. Very, very openminded and tolerant there.
Here is the thing, you have the western nations invading Iraq for no reason, killing or injuring more that a million civilians (most of them Muslims) and on top of this, a cartoonist further takes the stereotype to the extreme and insults the prophet himself where a billion Muslims consider him as role model. If you don't add insult to injury, people won't go crazy.
(June 14, 2011 at 7:55 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Yeah, Rayaan....I can't imagine WHERE I get those ideas from.
....
Just sort of came to me, I imagine.
It's not all of you of course....but until I see moderate muslims protesting the cult of death that the radicals espouse you are all under suspicion. "Silence means consent" as the old legal maxim goes.
Hey Min
There has been a lot of protesting by Muslim nations. I gave examples in the past that Iran was fighting the Taliban and Al Qeada long before US came into Afghanistan. What do you think all the protesting that is going on right now is for? People want to get rid of Draconian governments so people live peacefully and extremism can be eliminated for good.
