RE: An Inconvenient Question(s)
June 17, 2011 at 1:20 pm
(This post was last modified: June 17, 2011 at 1:26 pm by Atheist Jew.)
1. I never said to pretend that I never said that. Here is an article that talks about the compilation I mentioned.
Compilation: By the time of the caliphate of Uthman ibn Affan, there was a perceived need for the compilation of the Qur'an. The Caliphate had grown considerably, bringing into Islam's fold many new converts from various cultures with varying degrees of isolation. These converts spoke a variety of languages but were not well learned in Arabic and so a complete written text of the Qur'an had to be compiled. Another reason for compiling the Qur'an was that many of the Muslims who had memorised portions of the Qur'an were dying, especially in battle.
Uthman is said to have begun a committee (including Zayd and several prominent members of Quraysh) to produce a standard copy of the text. Some accounts say that this compilation was based on the text kept by Hafsa. Other stories say that Uthman made his compilation independently, Hafsa's text was brought forward, and the two texts were found to coincide perfectly.[citation needed]
Until this time there was reportedly only one written text of the Qur'an. According to Islamic accounts, this text was faithful to its original version. Non-Muslim scholars believe that, while this is entirely possible, there must at least have been slight variations produced from some corruptions.[6]
Thus, this became known as al-mushaf al-Uthmani or the "Uthmanic codex".[18]
Uthman's reaction in 653 is recorded in the following:
"So 'Uthman sent a message to Hafsa saying, "Send us the manuscripts of the Qur'an so that we may compile the Qur'anic materials in perfect copies and return the manuscripts to you." Hafsa sent it to 'Uthman. 'Uthman then ordered Zaid bin Thabit, 'Abdullah bin AzZubair, Said bin Al-As and 'AbdurRahman bin Harith bin Hisham to rewrite the manuscripts in perfect copies. 'Uthman said to the three Quraishi men, "In case you disagree with Zaid bin Thabit on any point in the Qur'an, then write it in the dialect of Quraish, the Qur'an was revealed in their tongue." They did so, and when they had written many copies, 'Uthman returned the original manuscripts to Hafsa. 'Uthman sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had copied, and ordered that all the other Qur'anic materials, whether written in fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, be burnt. Said bin Thabit added, "A Verse from Surat Ahzab was missed by me when we copied the Qur'an and I used to hear Allah's Apostle reciting it. So we searched for it and found it with Khuzaima bin Thabit Al-Ansari. (That Verse was): 'Among the Believers are men who have been true in their covenant with Allah.'"[Qur'an 33:23][Bukhari Sahih al-Bukhari, 6:61:510]
Although the order of his earlier script differed from the Uthmanic codex, Ali accepted this standardized version.[17]
Some scholars suggest that the early Uthmanic texts of the Qur'an differed in terms of punctuation from the version traditionally read today. It is believed that early versions of the text did not contain diacritics, markers for short vowels, and dots that are used to distinguish similarly written Arabic letters such as r[ر] & z[ز] or t[ت] & ṭ[ث] or f[ف] & q[ق]. One claim is that dots were introduced into the writing system sometime about half a century after the standardization of the Uthmanic text around 700 A.D.[19]
When the compilation was finished, sometime between 650 and 656, Uthman allegedly sent copies of it to the different centers of the expanding Islamic empire. From then on, thousands of Muslim scribes began copying the Qur'an
2. See #1. And do you have any proof that they recited it in its entirety daily? Any written recitations that match perfectly with the Quran?
3. Yes, it is your interpretation, because technically, if some country attacked another country several to five hundred years ago then they did not "leave you in peace".
4. Actually, you could interpret that as "culturally attacking" the Muslim countries. Not quite no offense intended Ryaan, but you are just like the Jews and Christians who insist that their texts didn't advocate slavery, genocide, cruel and unusual punishment, delusional faith, and time wasting. And, no I don't think we should stay in those countries. At this point I think I should say that having read Minimalist's message about you being one of the "better Muslims around", I was expecting someone who would present logical arguments instead of accusing me of things I never said, and presents arguments over and over and over, even after I disassemble them.
5. Yes, but I only did it once or twice whereas you have done it a dozen times. Big difference there.
Compilation: By the time of the caliphate of Uthman ibn Affan, there was a perceived need for the compilation of the Qur'an. The Caliphate had grown considerably, bringing into Islam's fold many new converts from various cultures with varying degrees of isolation. These converts spoke a variety of languages but were not well learned in Arabic and so a complete written text of the Qur'an had to be compiled. Another reason for compiling the Qur'an was that many of the Muslims who had memorised portions of the Qur'an were dying, especially in battle.
Uthman is said to have begun a committee (including Zayd and several prominent members of Quraysh) to produce a standard copy of the text. Some accounts say that this compilation was based on the text kept by Hafsa. Other stories say that Uthman made his compilation independently, Hafsa's text was brought forward, and the two texts were found to coincide perfectly.[citation needed]
Until this time there was reportedly only one written text of the Qur'an. According to Islamic accounts, this text was faithful to its original version. Non-Muslim scholars believe that, while this is entirely possible, there must at least have been slight variations produced from some corruptions.[6]
Thus, this became known as al-mushaf al-Uthmani or the "Uthmanic codex".[18]
Uthman's reaction in 653 is recorded in the following:
"So 'Uthman sent a message to Hafsa saying, "Send us the manuscripts of the Qur'an so that we may compile the Qur'anic materials in perfect copies and return the manuscripts to you." Hafsa sent it to 'Uthman. 'Uthman then ordered Zaid bin Thabit, 'Abdullah bin AzZubair, Said bin Al-As and 'AbdurRahman bin Harith bin Hisham to rewrite the manuscripts in perfect copies. 'Uthman said to the three Quraishi men, "In case you disagree with Zaid bin Thabit on any point in the Qur'an, then write it in the dialect of Quraish, the Qur'an was revealed in their tongue." They did so, and when they had written many copies, 'Uthman returned the original manuscripts to Hafsa. 'Uthman sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had copied, and ordered that all the other Qur'anic materials, whether written in fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, be burnt. Said bin Thabit added, "A Verse from Surat Ahzab was missed by me when we copied the Qur'an and I used to hear Allah's Apostle reciting it. So we searched for it and found it with Khuzaima bin Thabit Al-Ansari. (That Verse was): 'Among the Believers are men who have been true in their covenant with Allah.'"[Qur'an 33:23][Bukhari Sahih al-Bukhari, 6:61:510]
Although the order of his earlier script differed from the Uthmanic codex, Ali accepted this standardized version.[17]
Some scholars suggest that the early Uthmanic texts of the Qur'an differed in terms of punctuation from the version traditionally read today. It is believed that early versions of the text did not contain diacritics, markers for short vowels, and dots that are used to distinguish similarly written Arabic letters such as r[ر] & z[ز] or t[ت] & ṭ[ث] or f[ف] & q[ق]. One claim is that dots were introduced into the writing system sometime about half a century after the standardization of the Uthmanic text around 700 A.D.[19]
When the compilation was finished, sometime between 650 and 656, Uthman allegedly sent copies of it to the different centers of the expanding Islamic empire. From then on, thousands of Muslim scribes began copying the Qur'an
2. See #1. And do you have any proof that they recited it in its entirety daily? Any written recitations that match perfectly with the Quran?
3. Yes, it is your interpretation, because technically, if some country attacked another country several to five hundred years ago then they did not "leave you in peace".
4. Actually, you could interpret that as "culturally attacking" the Muslim countries. Not quite no offense intended Ryaan, but you are just like the Jews and Christians who insist that their texts didn't advocate slavery, genocide, cruel and unusual punishment, delusional faith, and time wasting. And, no I don't think we should stay in those countries. At this point I think I should say that having read Minimalist's message about you being one of the "better Muslims around", I was expecting someone who would present logical arguments instead of accusing me of things I never said, and presents arguments over and over and over, even after I disassemble them.
5. Yes, but I only did it once or twice whereas you have done it a dozen times. Big difference there.
