(June 25, 2011 at 11:00 pm)twocompulsive Wrote: Hello search and welcome. The first question I would ask your friend is has he actually read The Bible ? And by read I mean the entire volume from Genesis to Revelation. If he has, fair enough. But if he hasn't then how does he know ? I never read it till I became an atheist. But nevertheless. It doesn't advance your argument if a work you are referencing, you haven't even bothered to read. I intend to re-read it again. It isn't the sort of book you can do justice to just once, given it;s actual length and cultural and historical significance. Also you need to know that The Bible is incomplete. There are missing books known as the Gnostic Gospels which feature accounts by Mary Magdalene and Judas Iscariot.
It is so full of contradictions. Whether you believe in God or not you can't accept it verbatim due to the inconsistencies :
Adam lived to 930.
Methuselah to live to 969.
Enoch was perfect and never died.
Jesus was born of a virgin - no father.
He performed miracles and raised the dead.
He rose from the dead himself three days after dying.
God punishes the Jews for worshipping false ones - so why give them free will ?
He is angry with them for doing so - but isn't anger one of the Seven Deadly Sins ?
He contemplates not punishing them, but their children all the way to the fourth generation.
Eight people on the Ark - after the first generation conception possible only through adultery or incest.
These are just a few of the many. The entire book is full of ambiguity and paradox and inconsistency.
Now let me return to the Gnostic Gospels. Consider this : why would God have books of The Bible dictated to Man only for those books not to appear, or only for particular periods. Why not all the books in a completer version ?
One of the missing books is the Gospel of Mary Magdalene. She was Jesus's cousin. And may also have been his wife as well. They were very close - married or not - and in later years, the Church disapproved of this and had her Gospel removed. This was to curtail her influence on subsequent generations and the reason for this was good old fashioned misogyny. Which is why she is commonly portrayed as a prostitute.
One of the other missing books is the Gospel of Judas Iscariot. According to this, he was the favourite disciple and not Peter. Once again thie reason for this book being omitted may have had to do with jealousy and the need to find a scapegoat for the betrayal of Jesus. But if you actually read the four Gospel accounts in The Bible of this, they all give four different accounts. And this makes zero sense if the author is God. Because surely only one definitive account of the life of Jesus is needed. Everything else is superfluous to requirement.
So I would state in conclusion based upon this that there is no way God coul;d have dictated The Bible, It is just too illogical for it to be so. Interestingly while there are different versions of The Bible, there is only one of The Koran. Nevertheless, Go back to your friend and emphasise all these inconsistencies. It would be very interesting to reference his opinion. Hope this has been of some help.
Welcome searchingforanswers, I know I'm not responding to your post directly, however this response is for you and twocompulsive. TC maybe if you had read the Bible before becoming an atheist you would not have become one, just saying. You say that you've read the Bible through once and plan so again, I have a suggestion this time study what you read, you've made many mistakes in what you have written and if SFA's friend is knowledgable in scripture he will point out the many ways you are not. Before I go farther let's address a couple of things just to get them out of the way, first there are no missing books of the Bible and you made it sound as if that info came from scripture itself, the gnostic writtings do not agree with what the scriptures say and you need to go back to the OT to start your research on those writtings. There are not different versions of the Bible, there are however different translations that say the same thing, this is far from having different versions, to have different versions there would have to be major changes in what they say and that is not the case with the Bible.The Koran has never been re-translated because one would be killed for doing so, so much for the love that the Koran is suppose to teach. Yes I know that men died to translate the Bible from Latin into German, English and ect. but the translation were completed so that the common man could read the Bible for him/herself and make their own decisions.
You can not prove that some men did not live that long even if you do not believe in God, same for Enoch, you first have to disprove God before you can disprove what scripture says about Enoch. I know you think the burden of proof is on me, well I did not make the statement you did.
Again you have to disprove God before you can disprove that Jesus was born of a virgin.
Jesus performed miracles and I consider raising the dead to be a miracle, He died and rose from the grave three days later how are these contradictions and again you must first disprove God.
God gave freewill so people could have choice, He does not want us to be robots, would you want your government making you live only the life it desires, I don't think you would. Even so your government has laws and if you disobey a law you are punished and the severity of that punishment depends on which law you disobey, so when you read the OT again study what God tells His people the Israelites and see if He did what He said He would do.
No anger is not sinful, unless you use it in away that is unlawful, that would be doing something against God's will, again when you read the Bible study it and you will see that God can not sin. God will not even tempt man to sin.
The punishment you refer to above happens like this (pay attention to what scripture teaches) when God's people disobeyed Him they would turn their backs on Him and not receive His protection and blessings until they repented. With the sinful parents teaching their children the ways of the world and false gods the childern keep living the same sinful life style and it took a few generations before they would understand that living for God was the best choice. Now before you go saying where's their freewill you must understand that the purpose of the Israelite nation was to lead the way for Christ to come into the world, this is why Christ came to them first and then the gentiles (world). For all they did wrong and endured they were given the first chance to deliver the salvation of Christ to the world, however in their hatred for the world they did not recognize what was being give to them and let the privilege past to the gentiles.
Eight people on the Ark: I'm not sure how you could come to that conclusion, it was very possible with out adultery or incest, I know you did not reach that conclusion through scripture.
The gospel of Mary Magdelene, just where did you get all that junk, as I said above this gospel does not represent the rest of scripture and the same for the gospel of Judas Iscariot. For some one to rewrite the accounts of the scriptures so that these two gospels would not fit would take a rewritting of both testaments, that would be an undertaking so great no one would do it for a lie.
SFA I to encourage you to question your friend not only because he might be able to give you some answers you'er looking for but if he can't maybe he will go search out the answers and learn more about the God he professes.
In conclusion TC I would suggest that if you read the scriptures again that you not read straight through, instead you should study scripture and to do this you can not read straight through you must search for answers and why not look for some truths instead of trying to find what you believe to be contradictions.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.