The need to believe?

[*Deidre*]

I appreciate you sharing your thoughts, Simon. I don't know ''how to be'' like you describe yourself as being. I just don't. I want to, and there is some envy in me for atheists who never question, never waiver, never doubt their position. It seems like you never looked back at the faith you left behind. That's not everyone, we're all different.

You're wrong in that I don't not care if my beliefs are true, and only that they make me feel good...rather, I view my beliefs as if there is comfort and peace from them, then maybe there is truth behind what is bringing that peace. Of course, this is why I'm at a cross roads because I've discovered that comfort doesn't equate to truth. And faith hasn't been bringing comfort, to be honest. Not like it once did before I left it and identified as an atheist, anyway. But, truth...while maybe not entirely comforting or comfortable, will most likely bring a sustainable peace. I don't want to ''use'' faith as an escape from discomfort or my own fears of relying on myself, and maybe I have been doing that for a while. I'm sorting this out, so we'll see.

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Hey Ben, and thanks for your thoughts. You pose a good question - how important is the truth? I think that to the best of anyone's knowledge, it's safe to say no one really knows with certainty, one way or the other, if a deity exists.

No one knows any truth with 100% certainty. Everything is a preponderance of evidence and while with respect to specific deities the probabilities are 99.99% of those specific gods not existing (being charitable here), the question is not "do I know for sure" but "is there any valid reason to afford belief to this?"

I have to stop living for my emotions, though. We're not slaves to our emotions, and that's likely why so many religions can manipulate people, it preys on our vulnerabilities and emotions.

I can tell that you're a person that "leads with" your emotions, who feels things deeply, and there's nothing inherently wrong with that per se. It does however mean that you have extra work to do, to push back against confirmation bias, agency inference, and just generally giving subjective feelings too much evidential weight. I'm probably the rough opposite of you, I lead with my intellect and am often not that in touch with my emotions. That's got its own downsides too. I don't think you have anything to apologize for or wish for here, but you simply have to develop discipline around your feelings so they don't intrude ON your intellect and maybe override it under stress. And somehow do that while still being authentic.

This is very similar to someone who is a gourmand, who truly loves and lives for food; that's fine, so long as it doesn't lead to food addiction or obesity, etc. Or someone who lives for runner's high, which is fine so long as you understand the stress that puts on your physically and you don't end up with your toenails falling off, etc. It's just a different way of being, with its own strengths and vulnerabilities.

As an atheist, I felt honest with myself, yet emotionally a bit empty. In faith, I feel intellectually dishonest (to be honest), and emotionally a bit better. Less empty, but not necessarily ''full.'' I just don't want to live on a fence, that's all.

Your statement here suddenly made something "click" for me. I've never understood the sort of agnostic who can't seem to decide if god exists or not (they are fairly rare, actually, although many believers seem to think that's the ONLY manifestation of agnosticism). Such agnostics seem tormented by their own inability to decide. And maybe that's because something like what you're talking about is going on: there is discomfort for them, emotionally or in some other way, on both sides of that belief position. I used to think it was because they (wrongly in my view) calculate the "odds of gods" at something close to 50%, and I suppose that COULD be one source of such indecision. But I'll bet it's really just that they're equally uncomfortable with both concepts, maybe even frequently for the reason you cite.

In your case, the question is, how do you take care of yourself emotionally if you take the atheist belief position? As I mentioned before, in my case, I'm actually becoming MORE comfortable emotionally because my misfortunes as a believer just made me confused, angry and resentful due to unmet expectations that my faith had set. You on the other hand trade one discomfort for another.

Many atheists talk about a sense of awe regarding science, the universe, natural beauty, so emotional stimulation is not lacking on that side of the fence. You simply may have neglected it, thinking it wasn't important or desirable. If you haven't done so, watch videos of Carl Sagan or Neil Degrasse Tyson sometime -- those guys are STOKED about the vastness and beauty of the cosmos, with no help from religious ideology at all. Maybe you simply need to put more of an emphasis on things that feed your emotional needs without committing intellectual suicide in the process. Something to consider anyway.

Also since the death of a family member was your "trigger" here, consider ways to fully confront the fact of mortality -- yours, and others. A big help to me was the writings of Ernst Becker, particularly Denial of Death, which, if you ignore his constant and distracting digressions about his hero Freud, goes a long way to provoke you to think differently about mortality (it's all the more powerful because it was written by a dying man -- during his final illness).

As framed by religion, mortality is a horrible, unthinkable thing to be avoided with afterlives and other magical compensators. When understood properly, though, it looses virtually all of that "fear factor". I do not have a malfunction with my mortality and do not fear it; my only fear is concerning the process of dying, not death itself. And that applies to my family members ... I would be far more upset for example if my son's death had been protracted and excruciating. It was sudden and quick and merciful, and that helped a great deal. The fact that he is gone is not a source of endless despair, even though it's something I'll always have to live with and I'll always miss him. I recognize that death -- even untimely death -- is simply a part of life. That we are creatures of time, and tellers of stories, who need beginnings, middles, and yes -- ends.

Becker talks about "immortality projects" that people engage in to ease their fear of death and to convince themselves on some level that they're exempt from it. Religion is one of those immortality projects. Check Becker out, I think it might be helpful to you. The best way to get rid of fear is to de-mystify what you fear. Running from it helps, but only so long as you keep running, and that's exhausting before long.

mordant? I don't know you, but your posts really have left me with a lot of positive things to mull over, thank you! I bolded the above for emphasis, and yes, that's exactly what concerns me. I sound like this fragile little vase, and I'm not, at some point, we all cope with tragedies, etc...and even ''with'' faith, I've felt terribly sorrowful before, and even distraught. Faith isn't a shield but it has brought me some comfort that there is a light at the end of the tunnel, and I can't provide the light myself. That is what indoctrination teaches you, that you can't make it on your own, that you're ill equipped to take on the tough parts of life, so you need a god or a savior or something outside of yourself to do it. This is not an easy mindset to break, but logically, I know that it is not based on facts. And facts are important to me, because the truth will set one free. Sorry, not sorry, I had to say it. lol

Faith teaches that there is no comfort in the secular world, and that such comfort ultimately exists in a higher power. So you keep thirsting for this source to provide you what you lack, and so when I was an atheist, logically I was spot on, but when my grandmother died...I was fish out of water. Who or what do I turn to? People can't help me, my parents can't help me, my bf at that time can't help me, or maybe I just didn't think they could help me. That's probably more the case. 

So let's say I go down the atheist path again, I will have to create a new normal of how to deal with stress and strife. One of my atheist friends said to me recently...''you've always been your strength, you just have chosen to attribute it to something else.'' While logically that makes sense, I just need to believe it, you know? I need to have faith in myself. That's what's been lacking, if I'm honest.

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I wonder why in notifications, it states that I'm replying to myself, is that because one of my quotes is part of the person I want to quote?