(July 27, 2017 at 9:57 am)Astonished Wrote:(July 27, 2017 at 9:33 am)Brian37 Wrote: Not that I would even buy Jefferson's deism, but he is about as close as I would come in tolerating such a concept, "Question with boldness even the existence of a God. For if there be one, surely he would pay more homage to reason than to that of blindfolded fear."
Of course I don't even buy this idea, but it does reflect our modern concept of consent of the governed and the ability to challenge authority. My brain belongs to nobody.
Agreed on deism, but Jefferson also had that hero-worship complex about Jeebus that Droppin' Loads has.
He saw Jesus as a philosopher, not a man with super powers. He saw him as being like Plato or Socrates. I would have to disagree with that too but still. Neither Plato or Socrates sold a authoritarian figure but the Jesus character no matter how kind many try to paint him, is still under himself/God who does have the final rule.
It would not surprise me one bit if Jefferson or Paine for that matter were alive today and could see all the modern technology and science would ditch even deism considering how much they valued the natural world and science. But back then they were also playing politics and even personally, even the most intellectual humans can be held hostage by the fear of being wrong and punished in an afterlife.
Little known French figure Paul Heinrich Dietrich or Baron d'Holbach, was even far more direct and blunt about a god or gods not existing than Jefferson. He really is considered by many atheist historians to be the catalyst to the modern atheist movement. Now don't get me wrong, I would never paint him as a prophet, but extremely intuitive for his time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baron_d%27Holbach
