RE: The undeniable miracle at Fatima
August 9, 2017 at 5:23 pm
(This post was last modified: August 9, 2017 at 5:27 pm by Simon Moon.)
(August 9, 2017 at 2:15 pm)pabsta Wrote: What you are requesting has been done for St. Bernadette's incorrupt body. The body examination testimony is located on the same page I linked to.
An example of the logic presented in this discussion. A conversation after an exhibition baseball game:
Tom (baseball fan): Wow, you missed the exhibition baseball game yesterday! Did you hear about how that player from the Yankees charged the mound and took a swipe at the Red Sox pitcher?
Joe (his atheist friend): That player would never do such a thing
Tom: Well he did, I was there and I saw him
Joe: Where's your proof?
Tom: What are you talking about! I'm telling you I was there and I saw it, and there was a large crowd there too that saw it!
Joe: Well show me the video where it happened
Tom: It was an exhibition game, so it was not televised. Though there are still shots available of the game and the large crowd
Joe: That's not enough, so I don't believe that player ever took a swipe at the Red Sox pitcher
Tom: Dude, everyone at the game saw it, including some reporters who interviewed some of the fans about it afterward, and it was confirmed in newspapers the following day!
Joe: Did the newspaper articles contain a photo of the player swinging at the pitcher?
Tom: Well, no, but the articles still confirmed that it happened!
Joe: That's not enough, so I say it never happened unless you provide me more evidence. Every incident leaves behind evidence
Tom: Well in this instance, the player charged the mound, swung at the pitcher and missed, so there are no bruises or other evidence. But what does that matter when I'm telling you I saw it, and the large crowd there saw it, and it was in the newspapers the following day, with statements from fans confirming they saw it?
Joe: Eyewitness testimony as unreliable. Sorry Tom, the incident never happened
Readers of this discussion are going to be fit for a loony bin if they read any more of the illogical arguments being presented in here!
Are you actually attempting to compare the above story to the stories of Bernadette and Fatima?!
Do you even notice why your above story is a flawed analogy? Probably not, huh...
Let me clue you in.
Exhibition baseball games can be proven to exist.
Baseball players can be proven to exist.
Baseball players can be proven to have charged the mound in the past.
It can be proven that an exhibition game pitting the Yankees against the Red Sox on the day in question took place.
There are zero parts of your story that are in the least bit extraordinary, therefore, it can easily be believed on the word of the person that witnessed it.
But your stories about Fatima or Bernadette's incorrupt body, are not even in the same ballpark (pun intended) as the mundane story about a baseball game, and therefore, require much better evidence to be believable, by those of us with a modicum of critical thinking skills, to be supernatural events.
Unless of course, one were to set there bar for the validity of evidence as low as you have. But then, some of us actually care whether we have good reasons for our beliefs, and others (cough...) don't.
So, you've already knocked over the chess pieces and crapped on the board. All that's left is for you to fly back to your flock and claim victory.
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
