Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues

[Thumpalumpacus]

Are you sure there's really such a deep concern about negative symbolism?  Might want to ask the natives, my own ancestors included, how they feel about the statues of Custer, Columbus, and Andrew Jackson all over the place.  Fuck it, might even want to look into Lincoln's stance on the natives, and tear that guy's statues down too.

Well, I've got a pretty good bead on how blacks feel about the statues in question. Being part-native myself, I can tell you about how I feel about the other statues you've mentioned too. However, if they feel strongly about those statues you've mentioned, maybe they should do something too? "I'm complacent, therefore you should be too" is not terribly convincing.

See, here's the way I see it: if someone is in a position of power or leadership, he's probably fucked somebody.  Our social network is so deeply intertwined that even peaceful, law-abiding folk are complicit in horrible crimes.

But I'm okay with that.  If I was nearby a park with a General Lee statue (or Lincoln or Tecumsah), I'd love to go over and see what those fuckers looked like.  It's interesting.  I'd read the little plaque, learn a little something, and then spread my picnic blanket on the grass.

Yes, but the problem is that those statues aren't really accompanied by plaques reading "This is R.E. Lee, whose main accomplishment in life is defending the Confederacy which seceded in order to perpetuate slavery."

Now, if you want to know if I think black people should be treated equally-- fuck yes.  My western teaching staff here in Korea are currently 80% black (not counting my white self in the metric)-- not because I'm trying to fight the good battle, because I was sensible enough to realize they were the best people I had access to at the time of hire.  You want symbols?  Check out the long list of zeroes on the teachers' paychecks.  Those are symbols worth really fighting for.

No one is accusing you of racism.

I'm a little uncomfortable because it's looking like I'm a KKK guy or something.  But that's not it-- I value cultural diversity, and that means including all the main players in history as visible icons.  It means letting even Southern racists have their voice, and some avenue for their cultural expression.  Put up a goddamned statue of Hitler in Berlin so the Jews have something to piss on.  Put up one of Charlie Manson.  Put up Trump or Justin Bieber.  Then pass me a beer and throw me a frisbee.

Yes -- because your grandparents weren't in Auschwitz, your parents weren't murdered in Malibu, and you hopefully have the good taste to dislike Justin Beiber.

I value diversity myself, but I do not and will not value voices which actively work to reduce diversity, as the Charlottesville marchers under swastika banners did. If the best argument they can muster is cottoning to a genocidal regime, fuck 'em. Me, I'd rather dress up as a clown and mock them -- because I think that is a great response to them. I have and will stand up for their rights to march and express their support for keeping those statues in place.

However, I'm against maintaining those statues. Just because I hear their voices doesn't require me to agree, and I don't.

The idea that park statues are history resources is silly, though. As you yourself said, it would have all the significance of a frisbee-sling, to you. But it has all the significance of hurt to the blacks who are reminded of their ongoing struggle, and all the significance of white supremacists flying across the country to keep a statue up they've never viewed before in their lives -- and those are the feelings in play here, not your picnic apathy.

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Remember when Tizheruk was talking about dream catchers as important symbols to his people, and the majority rule here was that he and his racial background should go fuck themselves, 'cuz who the fuck is he to tell us what we should / shouldn't consider important symbols?  I do, and I bet he does, too.

Let me know when a dream-catcher is mounted on a pedestal in a park as a sign of warning. Until then, this comparison is bunk.

When did you become such a sloppy thinker? Surely you can perceive the difference between a private home decoration and a public monument, right?

Right?

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Do you think that it's possible that advocates of racism have managed to steer some narratives to a point of advantage for their ideologies?  Do you think that it;s possible that one, or some, of these narratives have influenced your appraisal of the situation regarding statue enthusiasm?

Of course not. He's a philosopher.