RE: Is Accepting Christian Evidence Special Pleading?
September 18, 2017 at 10:36 am
(This post was last modified: September 18, 2017 at 10:41 am by SteveII.)
(September 18, 2017 at 10:10 am)KevinM1 Wrote:(September 18, 2017 at 8:10 am)SteveII Wrote: Of course multiple people can testify to the same event and still be wrong. So, I grasp the basic idea. Until you find an example of something that has the kind of context I listed in my a through k points, they are irrelevant--apples and oranges.
You and your definitions. Verification is not an exact synonym for proof. I highlighted the relevant words:
ver·i·fi·ca·tion
ˌverəfəˈkāSH(ə)n/
noun
- the process of establishing the truth, accuracy, or validity of something.
"the verification of official documents"
synonyms:
confirmation, substantiation, proof, corroboration, support, attestation, validation, authentication, endorsement
"they may require further verification"
Third synonym, Steve... LMFAO
And no, Steve, it's not apples and oranges just because it torpedoes your argument. It's your job to meet the burden of proof. Everything in your argument hinges on the supernatural aspects of the story being true. Appeals to testimony and popularity don't lend truth to supernatural claims. It's just a distraction from the main problem you have - there's no way to prove the parts that make Jesus special actually happened. There's a million and one reasons to believe they didn't happen (physics, biology, how much his story comports to those of other myths, lack of independent, unbiased 3rd party accounts of these miracles, etc) and not one good reason to believe any of it is true, despite your desperate contortions.
Again, people believe things that aren't true all the time. In your eyes, Islam is likely full of such people. Guess what? You're no different. Also: Santa isn't real.
Comprehension skills continue to allude some of you. I said "exacts synonym". Look at the other 8 synonyms--none of which are synonyms of proof. I know definitions are hard, but we must at least try to understand the differences between words!
You can make all the arguments you want against Christianity. Knock yourself out! Regarding your "and not one good reason to believe any of it is true", I have outlined why it is reasonable to infer that the events of the gospels are at the very least, good representations of what really happened. There is no problem with my logic. In case you need to refer to the list, this is what I had posted:
Here is an inductive line of reasoning:
a. Jesus most certainly was born, baptized, and died in the time period claimed. (other sources)
b. Pete, James and John were known eyewitnesses to both the public and private events of Jesus' three year ministry
c. They presided over the early church
d. This early church instructed Paul
e. As evidenced by Paul's letters, this early church believed the claims later outlined in the gospels (long before they where written)
f. Peter, James and John eventually wrote letters in emphasizing the themes found in the gospels
g. Luke wrote Luke and Acts with the purpose of outlining the events from the birth of Christ through his present day
h. The editors of Matthew, Mark, and John were all alive during the lifetimes of these people above (it is unknown if the actual people with the pen were eyewitnesses)
i. The editors would have been know to the recipients of the gospels. The books were name by which apostle influenced that particular book
j. The early church, who we know believed the claims of Jesus already, accepted the gospels. There is nothing in the early church writings that questioned them.
k. The gospels dovetail nicely with Paul's writings based on his training directly from all the eyewitnesses (completing a loop)
THEREFORE it is reasonable to infer that the events of the gospels are at the very least good representations of what really happened.
Before you jump all over some of the statements above, please realize 1) you do not have proof against any of them (finding someone to agree with you is not proof) and 2) it is inductive reasoning and therefore it is not claiming the list is proof of anything--it is only claiming the inference is reasonable. It is NOT a deductive argument which claims fact, fact, therefore fact. So it is a matter of opinion whether you think the list supports the conclusion or not.
(September 18, 2017 at 9:26 am)Rhondazvous Wrote:(September 11, 2017 at 1:41 pm)SteveII Wrote: This charge comes up from time to on this forum.I do not know of any religion that offers eyewitness testimony, so according to your own definition of the word, christian evidence is as non existent as your god. Whatever some may say, accepting something that doesn't exist is delusion.
First, let's define our terms:
Special Pleading: Applying standards, principles, and/or rules to other people or circumstances, while making oneself or certain circumstances exempt from the same critical criteria, without providing adequate justification. Special pleading is often a result of strong emotional beliefs that interfere with reason. reference
Evidence: Evidence is not proof. It is a fact that supports a conclusion. For the purposes of this discussion, eyewitness testimony (from any religion) is evidence.
Christianity has eyewitnesses. John, Peter, James to name a few.