Enlightened rants...

[WinterHold]

MysticKnight
My approach is I use hadiths to gain insight into Quran, and whatever I see in Quran, I believe and what I don't see, I don't believe but neither deny, and what I know Quran rejects I reject.

First of all; this is not "your" approach.  This is a 1400 years old approach, to make Quranic text say what it doesn't really say. Almost all Muslims scholars (both Sunni and Shiite) use this way.
"Making a fish out of a bird"; in other words; troll. That's what I wrote in my post to you; and this is what you bellydanced around like a proper gymnast.

The thing Moses was also according to Quran revealed a book that everything pertaining to guidance of humanity explained, and what a guidance and leader to humanity, but still, right away, he prayed and realized what peop....

I'm not talking about Moses; troll, I asked you a question:

Quote: AtlasS33 said:

   Answer any of these.
   And no gymnastics or textual walls ! no implicit answers!
   Just give me one verse, across the 600 pages of the Quran that mentions any of the 5 questions' answers.


  
   AtlasS33 said:

   I'll give you many options; all prove your religion if you answer them:
   1- A verse mentioning "Ali" by the name.
   2-A verse mentioning "Hasaen" by the name.
   3-A verse mentioning "Hussain" by the name.
   4-A verse mentioning the 12 divine imams that we must follow
   5-A verse mentioning the last imam that you and your cult believe will rule the universe or whatever -Imam Mahdy-

Answer; or bug off !

Responses:

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1. The probability way of the past Quran shows the family that inherits the divine leadership of Mohammad would most likely face oppression.
2. It is a very limited amount of people, few is an understatement, it is limited always to Twelve Successors. Always. Lest it does seem like a monarchy or giving power to his offspring over others.
3. God negating power all but from Twelve Successors is a wise way in the people of Moses, because, we see if they had any chance, it would be to sticking to the chosen leaders as opposed to power hungry people like the clergy you guys all hate so much (and rightly so).
4. The wisdom of the Twelve in its last mention emphasizes on the corruption of priests and rabbis and scholars of religion in general, warning believers, how they make people go to extreme regarding chosen ones only as a means of corrupt control and how they hoard people's money and don't spend in God's way.   One of the wisdom of putting leadership in a chosen family and offspring, is to negate it from every power hungry person not worthy of leadership.
5. Leadership in religion is God's role, he guides and sufficient as a guide and helper, so necessarily, he will make it harder for humans to claim religious leadership whether they claim they are Prophets or in contact with Angels or hidden beings (Jinn gods) or claim to be successors, that is why he has emphasized a lot on look for proofs...and there is various proofs...limiting the number to twelve, and emphasizing on the number of successors and being consistent with it through all places and times, is of the wisdoms Quran emphasizes on though people may try to do away with the wisdom.  He knows our enemies won't cease to try to deceive humans.   So this makes it easy to distinguish the truth from falsehood.
6. Messengerhood of Mohammad is making people already claiming he did to heighten his name, so God told him to say, yes he does seek a reward, but it is not towards remembering him and glorifying him, but loving his family instead, so while the remembrance of Mohammad is heightened, it was all so people love the Twelve Successors and his holy daughter, and that was in Quran through so much emphasis - was for

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That's what I thought; troll !

God is known through his name, his beautiful Names are what succeed the Name of God, and the beautiful names of God associated with each other in the mission to make humans glorify God much and remember him much are a "family". God out of his wisdom (which I showed reasons why) also makes them physically related and branches linking back to a root, lest people claim what they want of this leadership as it is already bad enough people disbelieving it and giving authority to the oppressive idol and sorcery on the hearts.

And if you obey the Captains who are God's beautiful names, you obey God. There are no other means to God but through his door he appoints.


All holy books will be misinterpreted unless we go to it to understand it and we will err on our own without help from God's appointed leaders, and his appointed leaders' interpretations are needed to support our case!

Whoever told you this, just ordered you to lie down on your stomach and surrender your fate.

All holy books will be misinterpreted unless we go to it to understand it and we will err on our own without help from God's appointed leaders, and his appointed leaders' interpretations are needed to support our case!

So, which interpretation should I listen to ?
The interpretation of the zombie clan ? or the interpretation of zombie Jesus and his followers? or the interpretation of your likes? or the interpretation of the person teaching you the propaganda you spit here?

I thought that the Quran said:

Sura 7, The Quran:
( 178 )   Whoever Allah guides - he is the [rightly] guided; and whoever He sends astray - it is those who are the losers.

and

Sura 64, The Quran:
( 11 )   No disaster strikes except by permission of Allah. And whoever believes in Allah - He will guide his heart. And Allah is Knowing of all things.

? Guidance; according to the Quran; lies with God?
So; where did the zombie imams come from?

Oh wait..they came from the midst of struggle between Arabia and Persia, combined with lots of sweat falling from the backs of ears of some men from the Quraish
tribe..

Good questions.  Yet AtlasS33 and I agree on Mohammad so this not what we are debating.

EW !
Don't you ever try to put me with you on the same side; troll ! not even for one view.
My Mohammed is different from yours. I told you: you believe in a very different prophet; very different religion; very different life codes. Just keep your disgusting missionary work away from me; and we're cool.

Speak as you like, believe what you like; you have your religion I have mine. But don't you dare to say that me and you agree on the same "religious assets".

Beyond the Unseen realms of Angels he stood, yet on earth he walked, and his light extended to all human beings, what does this all mean?

I heard this mythical stuff in video games, movies and greek mythology. With lots of weird Biblical sparks in the mind.. Go easy on yourself. You're not a Catholic.The pope is not your friend; also. Or did you actually believed his "Muslim immigrant foot washing"??

Here:

Its no easy answer. The truth of Quran is strange so strange most Muslims can't digest it despite it being clear and repeated and Surahs and Surahs on themes and themes regarding this.

It becomes very strange when we apply your method; i.e using the Hadith to interpret it.
Read it raw; and it will differ by a lot.

All I ask you is to consider, what truly is goodness but following guidance, and what guidance can be true but that leads somewhere, and where can that guidance come from and lead but that which is perfect vision and the perfect judge - the source of all goodness, greatness, and beauty.

All I ask in return; is you answering my question:

Quote: AtlasS33 said:

   Answer any of these.
   And no gymnastics or textual walls ! no implicit answers!
   Just give me one verse, across the 600 pages of the Quran that mentions any of the 5 questions' answers.


  
   AtlasS33 said:

   I'll give you many options; all prove your religion if you answer them:
   1- A verse mentioning "Ali" by the name.
   2-A verse mentioning "Hasaen" by the name.
   3-A verse mentioning "Hussain" by the name.
   4-A verse mentioning the 12 divine imams that we must follow
   5-A verse mentioning the last imam that you and your cult believe will rule the universe or whatever -Imam Mahdy-